Thread: History and the stimulus package.

Originally Posted by JMS

You could very well be right but we, as a nation, have moved further away from religion in the last 60 years not closer to it.

Yet still it play a dominant role in US elections and policy making. They don't call it 'bible belt' for nothing.

Originally Posted by JMS

You could very well be right but we, as a nation, have moved further away from religion in the last 60 years not closer to it.

Assuming this is true (it probably is but I don't have any hard numbers on it) is that good or bad?
Further, when you say "as a nation" do you mean politcally or as individuals? It can be argued that organized religion is just as strong as it ever was in membership (maybe not but it is a separate issue is my point). As far as politcally, I see that as a strong move and here is why:

Religion, as it gets more and more fundamental, is in part about defining things as black and white or good and bad. It also frequently promotes submission to a male dominated church (Catholics, LDS...) and that is by necessity a bit emasculating. Unquestioning submission is sometimes compensated for by practicing domination over women and children. At its core it seems to me to be a way to create a predictable, understandable world, that has clear markers and can be controlled. I think the idea that things are black and white with no in-between is directly at odds with how law and government need to operate. It isn't enough for me to hear a leader say that things are "the will of God."

or "Mā šāʾ Allāh" as our Arabic friends like to say it...


-Rob

PS- Happy to continue this via PM if you would rather not take the thread so far off course.

Originally Posted by Sticky

I see National Health Care as a human rights issue, not a socialist one.

And I've always viewed health care as an individual responsibility issue, not a government one.


Scott

Originally Posted by honedright

And I've always viewed health care as an individual responsibility issue, not a government one.


Scott

I remember when health care costs were very reasonable maybe 15 or so years ago. It seems at some point the prices started to increase dramatically and rapidly. Kind of like the price of gas which we now know was caused by investors manipulating the market. I wonder about health care also. At any rate if you needed surgery for a life threatening problem and the cost of care would wipe you out of every penny you ever saved in your life inclusing retirement accounts and you maybe had to sell your home you might feel differently. If you have a job where you have good health insurance at a reasonable cost consider yourself lucky. many people can't afford a grand a month or more for health insurance for their family.

Originally Posted by JMS

... we, as a nation, have moved further away from religion in the last 60 years not closer to it.

Thank God!!!!!!!!!!

I think it's simple. Ultra Capitalism, or as it has been more properly termed Corporatism, is inherently self destructive as is the monetary system itself. Marx writes that it will eventually collapse beyond repair. Others disagree with his conclusions.

Since the 1950's Americans have had a negative propaganda war thrust into their consciousnesses and now, largely, blindly accept that any socially responsible government that might include universal health care, etc. is inherently evil without ever considering the facts themselves. This is compounded by the reality that the vast majority of 'news' information provided to the people largely excludes the socialist successes of other countries.

I have long felt that there is no room for slavish dogma one way or the other. There are many Socialist principles which Americans could really benefit from. Likewise, abandoning the notions of free markets entirely could be equally disastrous. One reason I am for progressive taxation (the more you make, the higher percentage of taxation you pay) is that it encourages the small businessman, the backbone of any society, to thrive while inhibiting monopolization. The only reason this isn't adopted is that the ambitious (greedy?) would run to a country that doesn't tax them as much. Perhaps an international arrangement is in order. But then I think we all know the negative propaganda Americans have been subjected to regarding the United Nations as well.

X

PS How many are aware that Benicio Del Toro stars in two movies about Ernesto 'Che' Guevara?

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I remember when health care costs were very reasonable maybe 15 or so years ago. It seems at some point the prices started to increase dramatically and rapidly. Kind of like the price of gas which we now know was caused by investors manipulating the market. I wonder about health care also. At any rate if you needed surgery for a life threatening problem and the cost of care would wipe you out of every penny you ever saved in your life inclusing retirement accounts and you maybe had to sell your home you might feel differently. If you have a job where you have good health insurance at a reasonable cost consider yourself lucky. many people can't afford a grand a month or more for health insurance for their family.

If we weren't taxed so much, we'd all be able to afford a lot more of a lot of things each month.

What ever happened to Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, and the 10th Amendment?

Seems to me that when the States and the People fail to do their jobs the Federal Government rushes in to fill the void.

As to the list, is the frog starting to feel the heat?

Scott

Originally Posted by honedright

If we weren't taxed so much, we'd all be able to afford a lot more of a lot of things each month.

And then they'd charge you more because you've got it. That's how it works. It gets quite tragic when it's the necessities of life that we're talking about.

X

Originally Posted by xman

And then they'd charge you more because you've got it. That's how it works. It gets quite tragic when it's the necessities of life that we're talking about.

X

And then I could choose the smart businesses that will compete.

Better pricing, more services, etc. This includes health care.

Medicine is, after all, a business.

Besides, how are "they" going to know what I've got?? Unless.....

Wait, is that frog soup I'm smellin'?


Scott

Originally Posted by honedright

And I've always viewed health care as an individual responsibility issue, not a government one.


Scott

My wife and I are both professionals. She is an architect and I am a software engineer. We make a good living and are pretty happy.

A few years ago my wife fell ill after giving birth to our second child. The doctors could not figure out why it was happening. Over the course of a year, one year, she was seen by at least a dozen doctors and had to be hospitalized four times.

By the second hospitalization, her employer hired someone to replace her. They sat them next to my wife and asked her to get this new person up to speed on her projects. She never got to finish out the year there.

My wife is a great architect. Highly skilled, highly educated. She did her job and did it well. HOW does personal responsibility work into this scenario? Do you think that without an employer you can afford to get sick? Do you think that if you get sick your employer will wait for you to get better? You don't know how it is apparently.