Thread: I have changed my view.

Oh ok, haven't seen your last post when I answered.
A regulation is very desirable but the biggest company is the country economy itself. They have the biggest debts. And they need to recharge every now and then and start from zero. Much to the disadvantage of everyone who has money in a bank, stocks or else, cause that money will be worthless then and replaced by another currency.
Happened twice in Germany during the last century and people ARE horrified!
Not at least for their experiences with what it lead to after 1929 cause it has promoted the Nazis to come up.

Originally Posted by jdurango

And you're assumption that we'd be better off without the bailouts....we'll have to agree to disagree. I just don't see how letting every major financial institution in the US fail would have a minimal impact on our country.

The only conclusion I can come to from this statement, is that you didn't read most of my last post.

My whole point, one more time with feeling, is NOT that we would have been just fine if we let all the major financial institutions fail. My point is that the ones that would have failed without the bailout, are not going to be saved by the bailout, and therefore, we would have been better off without a billion dollars of extra national debt.

Originally Posted by 0livia

Oh ok, haven't seen your last post when I answered.
A regulation is very desirable but the biggest company is the country economy itself. They have the biggest debts. And they need to recharge every now and then and start from zero. Much to the disadvantage of everyone who has money in a bank, stocks or else, cause that money will be worthless then and replaced by another currency.
Happened twice in Germany during the last century and people ARE horrified!
Not at least for their experiences with what it lead to after 1929 cause it has promoted the Nazis to come up.

Well there was the economic situation and there was also the vacuum left by the Socialist Party (SDP) after the failed (Trotsky would say strangled) revolution of 1923, which left the theretofore rather well-organized working masses disillusioned and in effect leaderless. This situation was ripe for ultra-nationalistic exploitation, among other things.

There were a lot of factors going into the rise of Hitler - as is always the case with the rise of any government.

Originally Posted by VeeDubb65

The only conclusion I can come to from this statement, is that you didn't read most of my last post.

My whole point, one more time with feeling, is NOT that we would have been just fine if we let all the major financial institutions fail. My point is that the ones that would have failed without the bailout, are not going to be saved by the bailout, and therefore, we would have been better off without a billion dollars of extra national debt.

I did read your post....I just think the bailout did a lot more than you are giving it credit for. You can't say a bank that is on the brink of failure because it's $40 billion in the red and can't pay it's creditors, is STILL going to fail if it receives $50 or $60 billion in federal assistance and thus CAN pay it's creditors, and get back on it's feet.

Now maybe in the LONG RUN, they still make poor decisions or employ bad business strategies, which I why Obama is asking for increased oversight, new management in some (extreme) cases, and re-instating regulations so this cannot happen again.....of course he's being labelled a socialist for this.....maybe rightly so....but it needs to be done right now....this is a terrible mess that he has to clean up, and he's getting dirty in the process

BTW, we're talking a total price tag of several TRILLION dollars, not billions.....here's a breakdown of where all the bailout funds have gone (again, the Bush bailout was terribly managed and nobody is really sure where some of that money went or how it was used)

Follow the money: Bailout tracker - CNNMoney.com

you can also see which banks, sepcifically were helped....most of these institutions are still in business or were sold off (with federal support) to other banks....they would have collapsed without the bailouts (and probably bought down a lot of other institutions with them)

I've never had a problem with Dick Cheney. I heard him speak his piece. I agree with him. What was done saved lives.

Cheney's biggest problem? His former boss. Cheney was the one conservative in the entire previous administration. While the former president was a Republican, he was and still is FAR from conservative.....just like his father. One or two issues does not a conservative make.

Which brings me to the election of 2008. What choices were we given? Didn't matter, the same person ran. There were far too many similarities than there were differences between the two major parties.....the line between them wasn't blurred, it was non-existent. I liken the previous election to a train wreck.....and instead of sending help, we sent more trains. How so? We removed someone who leans far out in left field and we "solved" our current problems by putting in not just one person, but an entire government that leans even further to the left than the last administration. The result? We're fighting fire with fire. I'm tired of getting burnt.

Hope? Change? Our current president has managed to out-Bush Bush in his first 60 days! What I do see is more of the same, there is no change...... What I also see is a bunch of grand standing, political posturing and finger pointing and not ONE OUNCE of real leadership for thousands of miles. What I don't see are the Obama supporters expressing their dissatisfaction with their choice as I expressed about my unfortunate but......*gulp*....."necessary".....choice for the past 8 years. Giving this man a free pass to jeopardize everything that was fought and died for the past more than 230 years just because this is his first real job outside of being a rabble rouser is no excuse to not criticize him. I'm not here to defend McCain because I think the same could have been said TODAY had he been elected instead. Bad choices are bad choices. I keep hearing, "aw, just give him a chance". If our commander in chief told us we'd solve our problems by jumping off of a bridge, should we give that a chance, too(I'm sure the press would be willing to do that)? I understand the consequences of poor judgment and bad decisions all too well........and unfortunately for the entire world, the President of the United States does not have the luxury of making that kind of a mistake, and neither the world nor I can wait until 2017 to get a different person in the White House (what, you think America will really vote him out in 2012? I have lost faith that voting him out is a reality)

I used to think that conspiracy nuts were just that.....nuts. The more I pay attention to what is going on the more I start to believe them.

Is it really the government's job to:

force the banks to keep the money that was "loaned" to them?
tell me that I can't shoot heroin into my veins or snort cocaine?
tell me the size of my car or the size of the engine that makes it move?
discourage me from drinking soda by taxing the living hell out of it?
discourage me from smoking by taxing that, too?
discourage me from buying a land yacht by excessive gas tax?

The government needs to get out of my life and stay out and stop looking at the Constitution as a roadblock to controlling me and everything else. We now have more people employed by government than in the manufacturing sector. Government is one of the fastest growing sectors for employment. Can we really sustain this? Is all of this control really necessary?

Sorry, I was ranting and was waaaay

That being said, I have no problem waterboarding the likes of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. I remember reading somewhere that we were saved more than once by these "enhanced interrogation techniques" that the former vice president refers to. What do I see in the news? Looks to me like our current political leaders are stumbling all over themselves to get in front of the press and say, "DUH!" after denouncing the very thing that saved us and kept us out of harm's way. It's quite funny and quite sad at the same time.

Just because we stop using "enhanced interrogation techniques" like waterboarding doesn't mean that those of us who want us dead are going to stop persuing that.

Do in the next election what I did the past election........leave the ballot blank.

Originally Posted by CableDawg

.... just because this is his first real job outside of being a rabble rouser is no excuse to not criticize him.....

HE SAID IT
NOT ME (at least not this time)
Obama


and no this is not another alias of me



troublemaker

that is what we elected

a damn troublemaker

Obama won because God wanted him to win.
God is in charge of everything.
Therefore, those who supported McCain/Palin voted contrary to the intent of the Lord.
Nuff said...

Originally Posted by CableDawg

Is it really the government's job to:

force the banks to keep the money that was "loaned" to them?
tell me that I can't shoot heroin into my veins or snort cocaine?
tell me the size of my car or the size of the engine that makes it move?
discourage me from drinking soda by taxing the living hell out of it?
discourage me from smoking by taxing that, too?
discourage me from buying a land yacht by excessive gas tax?

Sounds like you've been hit by globalization!

Originally Posted by 0livia

Sounds like you've been hit by globalization!

And you find this funny?

There are not many choices left except finding it funny.
ETA: in Europe that would qualify you for the leadership of the leftest punk anarcho party
and you'd probably win any election.