Thread: I have changed my view.

Originally Posted by Wildtim

4 months too long. He's already spent more than the previous administration did in 8 years , and they were chronic over spenders. The more he is deservedly criticized the more people wake up from their infatuation with pretty scripted words and start listening to the real message. Hopefully all of these people keep writing their elected representatives and put enough pressure on them so that they will keep the brakes on and keep potus's agenda from ruining this country completely.


We could do far worse than Chuck Noris for president. We already had one great one who used to star in movies with a monkey maybe it's time for another.

This is pretty much exactly my point.

There is no change in viewpoint for anybody as the thread title implies.

The conservaties will always deride the liberals, and the liberals the conservatives. My party has the Right Ideas, the Other Guys are morons.

Cheney is saying the Other Guys are morons, because the Other Guys are undoing all that they worked so hard to do, right or wrong. The Clintons were morons for undoing all the hard work of Bush #1, and on and on.

I'm not really trying to say who is right or wrong, it just doesn't seem as if anybody has changed any views, rather had views re-enforced. A ultra-conservative ex-VP has issues with a liberal minded new President? Is that really such a surprise?

Originally Posted by gugi

I wouldn't call the things in question 'little' - clearly Cheney and Obama don't consider them little either.
I don't know what political differences you are talking about, but Nixon was prosecuted despite his opinion that "when the president does it it's not illegal".

He was ready to be impeached for illegal wiretapping while president. He resigned before the impeachment and Ford pardoned him! Ford did the right thing so as not to stain the presidency any further than Nixon already did. It cost him the election in 76 by the way and I bet he knew it would.
I wonder if Obama has such courage and strength of character or will he continue using the Bush administration as his personal whipping boy and scapegoat?

You're merely showing your double standard, Mark. I'm sure your opinion will change again when the circumstances permit you to trumpet your personal political viewpoint. I don't say this to get you going (this time ) but merely to state a fact. We are all vulnerable to this and I have caught myself doing it from time to time.

NOBODY and NOTHING is above criticism. In the "Can you really be put in jail for criticising" (misquoted I know) thread, you argue very strongly against this course of action and have even been successful at altering my own views on the matter. And before you do, hauling out the "this is different" defense won't cut it.

And for the record, I think Cheney's speech was deplorable. Really, "we tortured because it kept us safe". Well, that's hardly true. Anti-American sentiment couldn't have been higher under the previous administration and neither could America's human rights record. Hundreds of thousands died on your side of the conflict alone because of these decisions. What it did was make him richer.

It has been opined to me that there are two kinds of people in the world, politically speaking. There's the Tyrant who justifies all actions for the attainment of power, arguing that this is what "makes us strong", "keeps us great", "keeps us safe". Then there's the Samaritan who helps raise the dignity of all people arguing that, "we are all uplifted", "we would want such justice ourselves", and "beware when battling monsters least ye become one".

X

Originally Posted by xman

You're merely showing your double standard, Mark. I'm sure your opinion will change again when the circumstances permit you to trumpet your personal political viewpoint. I don't say this to get you going (this time ) but merely to state a fact. We are all vulnerable to this and I have caught myself doing it from time to time.

NOBODY and NOTHING is above criticism. In the "Can you really be put in jail for criticising" (misquoted I know) thread, you argue very strongly against this course of action and have even been successful at altering my own views on the matter. And before you do, hauling out the "this is different" defense won't cut it.

And for the record, I think Cheney's speech was deplorable. Really, "we tortured because it kept us safe". Well, that's hardly true. Anti-American sentiment couldn't have been higher under the previous administration and neither could America's human rights record. Hundreds of thousands died on your side of the conflict alone because of these decisions. What it did was make him richer.

It has been opined to me that there are two kinds of people in the world, politically speaking. There's the Tyrant who justifies all actions for the attainment of power, arguing that this is what "makes us strong", "keeps us great", "keeps us safe". Then there's the Samaritan who helps raise the dignity of all people arguing that, "we are all uplifted", "we would want such justice ourselves", and "beware when battling monsters least ye become one".

X

See the post immediately above your post that I quoted X

That doesn't wash either. Wasn't Ford Nixon's vice president? Clearly they were together on it.

Originally Posted by xman

That doesn't wash either. Wasn't Ford Nixon's vice president? Clearly they were together on it.

I don't believe they were but it is true that that is a possibility.

As far as whats going on with The accusations against the bush administration I believe it is more a political tool to shut up, cut off, and demonize the opposition rather than meting out true justice.

I believe this is where we differ it is not a double standard on my part as you say, we just see it from a diametrically opposed view point.

Originally Posted by JMS

He resigned before the impeachment and Ford pardoned him! Ford did the right thing so as not to stain the presidency any further than Nixon already did.

are you taking an opinion contrary to the spirit of justices scalia and thomas? i thought you believed in blind justice.

Originally Posted by JMS

It cost him the election in 76 by the way and I bet he knew it would.

so you believe he thought the liberal policies that would follow after his failure to be reelected weren't as great of a threat to the country as the 'stain to the presidential institution' that prosecuting nixon would've been? to me it's the deeds that do the damage, not the prosecution.

Originally Posted by JMS

I wonder if Obama has such courage and strength of character or will he continue using the Bush administration as his personal whipping boy and scapegoat?

and i thought this was all about your opinion of cheney...

Originally Posted by JMS

As far as whats going on with The accusations against the bush administration I believe it is more a political tool to shut up, cut off, and demonize the opposition rather than meting out true justice.

makes no sense whatsoever to me - can you explain how accusing somebody of something is shutting them up or cutting them off?

Originally Posted by JMS

I don't believe they were ...

Once again your 'belief' is inconsistent with reality.

George and Dick had eight years to present their case and promote their policy. Eight years is a very long time.

He had the opportunity to say all of these things while he was in office. People feel like they were the bigger liars, so they voted for the guy who at least had the good sense to lie in a way people would vote for.

Sorry, but Dick's ramblings are not of any interest to me, and he should have the good sense to shut up before he makes himself look like a bigger idiot. John Stewart said it best, "It's like asking Wyle E. Cyote how to catch the road runner".

Honestly, do you really think that the invasion of Iraq was not a giant mistake? Do we really want to take the advice of the architects of that mistake when it comes to fixing it? If you hire a mechanic to fix your car, and he totally wrecks the engine, do you want him to be the one to tell you how to fix it?