Thread: Oklahoma Incident

the largest gun you can shoot competently and conceal effectively

there are no hard and fast rules here

but a good example of the "man up" concept can be illustrated in the 38spl-357mag debate

the only real difference is a slight increase in the weight of the frame and the length of the cylinder
the brass does not contain the pressure, but rather rather the frame and cylinder, which makes the 357 heavier in all steel guns but this can be negated by the use of alloys

pay attention to weight on these

here is a 38spl
GalleryofGuns.com - Gun Genie

here is a 357
GalleryofGuns.com - Gun Genie


here is all steel
357
GalleryofGuns.com - Gun Genie

38spl
GalleryofGuns.com - Gun Genie

as you can see there is almost no difference between any of these guns except price
Man up, bite the bullet on the price if you absolutely MUST have an alloy frame, and cope.

What I am saying is that there is no reason to carry a 38 when a 357 is almost exactly the same, even shoots the same practice ammo.
The full power 357 is a very good increase in power.
The 38spl is a poorly shaped 9mm with heavy bullet capabilities
might just go with a 9mm flatgun

BUT THE 357 KICKS MORE
hunters will tell you they don't feel recoil when firing on game
recoil is for target practice

If you ever have to shoot at someone you'll be so geeked you won't feel the recoil, you won't see the flash, you won't hear the gun.
PERIOD.

here are ballistics
38
New Page 2

here is both but light on data
New Page 1

this is short barrels in general
Shooting Illustrated's Guns and Hunting - NRA

What DO I RECOMMEND?

I answered this question yesterday when taking my friend gun shopping.

I say 45, or 40.
357 Sig is acceptable, but is the same package as a 40 and not really better so you might as well just get the 40.

these were my picks
GalleryofGuns.com - Gun Genie
GalleryofGuns.com - Gun Genie

they both offer
increased cap over a wheelgun
width is no wider than wheelgun of a LESSER caliber (a 45 revolver is wider than a 45 auto)
excellent price

here is a 38spl substitute
I really wish people would compare 9mm and 38sp ballistics and see that they are nearly the same gun
GalleryofGuns.com - Gun Genie
this gun is a true hide out
very small
very light
increase in capacity over a 38spl
easier to reload/carry extra ammo
this is the MAN UP version of the P3AT (380) which is my final link

The Oklahoma shooter was using this gun, the Kel-Tec P3AT
GalleryofGuns.com - Gun Genie
this gun is fine, but only if you intend to shoot and haul ass

I myself prefer BANG-FLOP
man up

Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

What DO I RECOMMEND?

I answered this question yesterday when taking my friend gun shopping.

I say 45, or 40.
357 Sig is acceptable, but is the same package as a 40 and not really better so you might as well just get the 40.

these were my picks
GalleryofGuns.com - Gun Genie
GalleryofGuns.com - Gun Genie

I just had a look at those guns. That is the sort of thing I would choose for CCW. And by the looks of it, these are not that much more difficult to carry and conceal than the 0.38

Silly question, but is there a reason that the slide and the frame have different colors, other than aesthetic?

I don't know Glen, I was in the Military, I think if I empty a mag of 7.62 into the idiot, He'll drop like a rock. He'd have so much lead in him, spinal cord or not, he ain't standin'. Ya know. Oh, you said single shot, my bad.....then, head shot for sure...through the eye...

He went into the Drug Store with intent to Rob and/or Kill the guy. I think the Pharmacist was a bit jacked up. This is what I tell people at work when they buy a self defense weapon. They look at 40's, 45's, 9mm and some guy just bought a Judge. ( A Judge is revolver chambered for 410 (a shotgun round) and 45 long colt...) a heavy hitter.
I try to tell them, unless you've been in a situation like that, you don't know how your going to react. Police train, so do special forces, but you never know until you are there. Get a shotgun. You just have to be close, I've seen people miss a target at 7yds. I don't how far it is from most people's couch's to their door, but i'd bet it's more than 7yds.....Good thing too about a shotgun, The pelletts are not going to go into your neighbors house like a 45 would, or say a 9mm. One lucky shot and you could take out your neighbor....That's a situation you never want to be in.....

I personally saw someone take a 357 magnum chambered with Black Talon's, they're 180 grain fwiw., put it to their head, pull the trigger and they dropped like a rock. The bullet traveled with such velocity, it went through the victim, and knocked a chunck out of a brick in the residence.
True Story.....I don't care who you are, this is something you never need to see in your lifetime, still, I'm pro gun....

Originally Posted by Bruno

I just had a look at those guns. That is the sort of thing I would choose for CCW. And by the looks of it, these are not that much more difficult to carry and conceal than the 0.38

Silly question, but is there a reason that the slide and the frame have different colors, other than aesthetic?

Strictly Aesthetic's.

Here's food for thought, when we talk about one shot drop, or one shot kill, another thing you need to consider is size, physical conditoning, health, etc...Take the movie, "The Green Mile" remember the guy with the little mouse, The little skinny white southern guy, I'd bet one shot from a 45 would take him out anywhere I hit him, quick. the leg, because of the Artery, he'd bleed out in under 5 minutes, give or take. Now, take the big African American huge bodybuilder guy, that had the magical powers, forgetting his "magical powers" his sheer size alone, you could empty a mag into him and he'd just keep coming. If my life depended on it, I'd shoot him once in leg, once in the head....

Originally Posted by Bruno

I just had a look at those guns. That is the sort of thing I would choose for CCW. And by the looks of it, these are not that much more difficult to carry and conceal than the 0.38

well considering the width of the cylinder, no they aren't any wider
the only thing I would point out is that square guns print more

I personally like the flatest possible gun.
my personal carry next to a nitecore D10 and Robeson ShurEdge early 43 production

Originally Posted by Bruno

I just had a look at those guns. That is the sort of thing I would choose for CCW. And by the looks of it, these are not that much more difficult to carry and conceal than the 0.38

well considering the width of the cylinder, no they aren't any wider
the only thing I would point out is that square guns print more

I personally like the flatest possible gun.
my personal carry next to a nitecore D10 and Robeson ShurEdge early 43 production

the gun measure 1.02 at the widest point
it's very big, but very flat
it matches the heaviest 180gr handload in a 357 with a six inch barrel
and it does it with 4 more rounds, a larger diameter bullet, one inch less barrel, and half the width
180gr Gold Dot @ 1350+ = 700 pounds of head splattering fun

It's too much by far for most people (including the FBI) but I can shoot it very well and it hits like Mjollnir.
It also takes me far beyond defense and into the realm of an offensive handgun.
I'm an offensive guy right? Why shouldn't my gun match?

Originally Posted by Bruno

Silly question, but is there a reason that the slide and the frame have different colors, other than aesthetic?

I believe those were all polymer frame guns so the frame will be black, grey, green, desert, etc.

The silver slides are usually stainless
some stainless are coated to whatever color, usually black
some coated slides are carbon steel, and hence the coating
some carbon steel slides are blued, and you can tell these right off

Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

well considering the width of the cylinder, no they aren't any wider
the only thing I would point out is that square guns print more

I personally like the flatest possible gun.
my personal carry next to a nitecore D10 and Robeson ShurEdge early 43 production

well considering the width of the cylinder, no they aren't any wider
the only thing I would point out is that square guns print more

I personally like the flatest possible gun.
my personal carry next to a nitecore D10 and Robeson ShurEdge early 43 production

the gun measure 1.02 at the widest point
it's very big, but very flat
it matches the heaviest 180gr handload in a 357 with a six inch barrel
and it does it with 4 more rounds, a larger diameter bullet, one inch less barrel, and half the width
180gr Gold Dot @ 1350+ = 700 pounds of head splattering fun

It's too much by far for most people (including the FBI) but I can shoot it very well and it hits like Mjollnir.
It also takes me far beyond defense and into the realm of an offensive handgun.
I'm an offensive guy right? Why shouldn't my gun match?



I believe those were all polymer frame guns so the frame will be black, grey, green, desert, etc.

The silver slides are usually stainless
some stainless are coated to whatever color, usually black
some coated slides are carbon steel, and hence the coating
some carbon steel slides are blued, and you can tell these right off

Pretty sad that you feel the need to suit up like you're Rambo every time you go to the store for some milk or something.

Originally Posted by Blade Wielder

Pretty sad that you feel the need to suit up like you're Rambo every time you go to the store for some milk or something.

Not as sad as anyone who tries to mess with him though, eh?

I'd say a gun is like a car seat belt. Does nothing 99.9% of the time, but if it saves your life you sure are glad you had it.

Originally Posted by Blade Wielder

Pretty sad that you feel the need to suit up like you're Rambo every time you go to the store for some milk or something.

yeah..... I'll go count up how many people have gone to jail because of a run in with me.

When you are in the grocery store with your gallon of milk and arms full of hamburger buns, soda, and some onions and from behind you hear
" HEY !! That's HIM !!"
then you know there are at least two of them

your heart skips a beat, or maybe three

Originally Posted by Rajagra

Not as sad as anyone who tries to mess with him though, eh?

I'd say a gun is like a car seat belt. Does nothing 99.9% of the time, but if it saves your life you sure are glad you had it.

Damn skippy Skippy!


you crash one out of every 1000 drives in a car?

the number is smaller, by far
but you still wear your belt, at least I do

oh, I don't carry the knife AND the gun
that would just be stupid and paint me in a bad light if I ever did shoot someone

I added the knife because most people know about what size Ka-Bar knives are.
This is a Robeson and just a hair bigger, but gives an idea of size anyway.