Thread: Pres. Obama, between a rock and a hard place.

Originally Posted by 0livia

Muslims are all another thing.
I always realize that when they throw stones after my cat.

oh do tell.....

Better not, after what I've experienced today I'd sound like a racist.
Got to get me a lawyer rather (or someone with extreme education skills, which I'd find much better personally).

getting offtopic here... have you watched the video?
as far as I've understood there could be your face in it, too!

Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

#1
Bush liberated 50 million Muslims.

That remains to be seen. It's just as likely that he's invited the formation of another Sheite theocracy a la Iran.

#2
I might avoid a war if I didn't agree with the pretenses.
A draft is one thing, volunteering is entirely another.
Which brings me to #3

Yes, Bush did nothing more than avoid serving. He certainly didn't have the balls to actually stand up for his ideals and burn his draft card and risk going to jail. That's because he's a shirker, and spineless. He took the easy way out.

#3
Anyone who enlists in the service has issued Uncle Sam a blank check, redeemable at any time, up to and including their life.
Period.
Anyone in the service who disagrees should have studied their history, and their enlistment papers.

I'm sorry, you must thought that I was asserting that our soldiers were whining about their duties. No, they aren't, and that's because they're the best and brightest of their generation. Mr Bush has squandered the valor and the lives of these men and women all for the sake of his buddies at Haliburton. There was never a threat posed by Saddam Husein to our country. And did we find Ossama Bin Laden there? No? Why do you think that is? Is it perhaps because he wasn't hiding under all that oil?

Yes, I served in the armed forces too, and I went where I was told and I didn't gripe about it. But don't you think it's the duty of those who command these men and women to make sure that they give their lives to protect their country and the Constitution? Doesn't it seem a crime for a president to send our sons and daughters into a war that is anything but a defense of American lives and liberty?

glad to see classism is still alive and well

Oh, maybe you didn't get the memo? Yes, Classism is very much alive and well. Those who get to decide where our soldiers die arent the same ones who lose their children on foriegn soil. Money buys media, money buys elections, and money buys power and influence. Money is concentrated at the top. I don't begrudge the rich their money, but I don't think they should have more than one vote. Sadly, their money buys more influence than that. I'd like to pretend classism didn't exist any longer, but the lack of oil company executives' and president's kids in the armed forces seems pretty telling to me.

how much oil are we getting out of Iraq?

I want an actual number in BPD.

Ahhh...so, are you being intentionally obtuse? Or, perhaps, ignorant?
Because of course we are not getting any oil out of Iraq right now, infrastructure damage and political "complication" have made it impossible until recently. However, the implication--or rather, FACT-- that the occupation of Iraq is predicated upon the control of Iraq's oil supply is pretty well substantiated. People like Alan Greenspan (Remember him? Republican ex-head of the Fed?) and George W. Bush have said so.

So you can certainly believe that the Iraq war is about "liberating" Muslims, or bringing democracy to the Middle East, or WMDs (oh man, that was funny wasn't it? Remember when our ex-president told us that Iraq was developing weapons of Mass Destruction, even though there was no evidence?) but let's be serious--it's the oil. Everyone knows it, we Americans just like to pretend that we're "better" than that.

Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

how much oil are we getting out of Iraq?

I want an actual number in BPD.

Acording to the EIA;

"While its proven oil reserves of 112 billion barrels ranks Iraq second in the work behind Saudi Arabia, EIA (Energy Information Administration)estimates that up to 90-percent of the county remains unexplored due to years of wars and sanctions. Unexplored regions of Iraq could yield an additional 100 billion barrels. Iraq's oil production costs are among the lowest in the world. However, only about 2,000 wells have been drilled in Iraq, compared to about 1 million wells in Texas alone."

Furthermore, Iraq pumped about 3.5 million barrels per day before the invasion of Kuwait. Production dropped dramaticaly due to the first Gulf War, and stayed low due to sanctions untill the second invasion. Right now it's at about 2.4-2.5 million barrels per day. It's been doing that since about 2007, according to the BBC. Nothing to sneeze at.

But the real money is in the no-bid contracts that Bush has awarded his cronies. That money comes straight out of your pocket, and will come out of the pockets of your children and grand children as well. We're paying taxes to pay back the money we borrowed to make a very few people wealthy.

Originally Posted by joesixpack

Oh, maybe you didn't get the memo? Yes, Classism is very much alive and well. Those who get to decide where our soldiers die arent the same ones who lose their children on foriegn soil. Money buys media, money buys elections, and money buys power and influence. Money is concentrated at the top. I don't begrudge the rich their money, but I don't think they should have more than one vote. Sadly, their money buys more influence than that. I'd like to pretend classism didn't exist any longer, but the lack of oil company executives' and president's kids in the armed forces seems pretty telling to me.

I don't understand this... everyone has relatives, children, friends who were involved in the war. I have friends from poor and wealthy families alike that served with honor (I admit that honorable service was never in question).

And IF none of the executives and elected officials had kids in the armed forces (which is a fallacy), what would that "tell" you? Where does the assumption come from that the children of someone who sends a command should participate in the carrying out of that command? Whatever happened to the freedom of the children to act as their own agents? I don't know what GWB did in the military, but I know his rich, politician Daddy fought.

Seriously, all of this classism stuff is a cancer... money buys elections and votes...?? I thought conservatives were supposed to be running the conspiracy. How did we end up with a democratic majority everywhere and a democrat in the white house.. all of those power brokers must really have something up their sleeve.

It makes sense that all of these fat cats are shelling out so that the media will cover a nonstop barrage of obama worship and class envy, that's what oil tycoons are after, really helps them out in the long run I'm sure.

This is pure distraction to push an agenda.
I can not, for the life of me understand why there is so much hatred toward the successful (disclaimer*** I am broke as can be, I only have debt and a few razors to my name***). Oh my, I'm rambling...

So, you guys come here often?

Originally Posted by Del1r1um

Seriously, all of this classism stuff is a cancer... money buys elections and votes...?? I thought conservatives were supposed to be running the conspiracy. How did we end up with a democratic majority everywhere and a democrat in the white house.. all of those power brokers must really have something up their sleeve.

What ???????Conservatives???


oh jesus all this time I thought it was the Jews????

This classism/populism is a function of not seeing the forest for the trees.

Who the hell can possibly even think about classism when the black son of a single mother rose to the Presidency?

What is this India? Get real people.
No one is holding you down but YOU.

Who the hell can possibly even think about classism when the black son of a single mother rose to the Presidency?

Somebody who can read stats.

Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

What ???????Conservatives???


oh jesus all this time I thought it was the Jews????

This classism/populism is a function of not seeing the forest for the trees.

Who the hell can possibly even think about classism when the black son of a single mother rose to the Presidency?

What is this India? Get real people.
No one is holding you down but YOU.

WOW...
you are denying a truth!?
The US is a class society that is defined by capitalism...thats why the conservatives are so mad at obama and his "socialist" approaches...

i say tax the crap out of oil companies and people who deal with the "reconstruction" of Iraq!

they are making millions over millions and while they say the pay more taxes than "poor" people, they still make more money than them...
a few millions less will not make them less rich!

but Of course, that is "taxing" success...

and yes...
its only "you" who is holding back your success...
(tell them to the people who would be affected by the woman who said we should not give summer lunches to under privilege kids in poor areas

State Rep. Cynthia Davis thinks hunger is a "positive motivator" | KansasCity.com Prime Buzz)