One related to the joke thread controversy

[Wildtim]

"Indeed, the decision that capital punishment may be the appropriate sanction in extreme cases is an expression of the community's belief that certain crimes are themselves so grievous an affront to humanity that the only adequate response may be the penalty of death."

~ Supreme Court of the United States of America

*

" A society that sentences killers to nothing worse than prison -- no matter how depraved the killing or how innocent the victim -- is a society that doesn't *really* think murder is so terrible."
JEFF JACOBY, September 28, 2003

"There is barely a country in Europe where the death penalty was abolished in response to public opinion rather than in spite of it. In other words, if these countries' political cultures are morally superior to America's, it's because they're less democratic."
-- Joshua Marshall, writing in The New Republic

[xman]

Noone deserves to die simply by virtue of who they are or what they've done regardless of how monstrous that may have been. Thinking so makes YOU the one with the homicidal fixation. "...lest you become one". We should, however, be prepared and able to (regrettably) use deadly force to protect our lives, the lives of our family or other innocents.

X

[Wildtim]

X I don't see how you can say that.

You really don't believe that there are people in the world who will always desire to hurt people and continue to act on those desires until they day they die?

You don't think people deserve to know that they are beyond a shadow of a doubt safe from above monsters?

You would really put the right to live of the monster above the right to live of the rest of society?

[xman]

X I don't see how you can say that.

You really don't believe that there are people in the world who will always desire to hurt people and continue to act on those desires until they day they die?

I certainly do and we keep those people incarcerated for life for the protection of the community.

You don't think people deserve to know that they are beyond a shadow of a doubt safe from above monsters?

same answer

You would really put the right to live of the monster above the right to live of the rest of society?

Not at all, but above your right to act as part of a collective murderer yourself. By simply saying "kill 'em", we become the very monsters we abhor and, worse still, we support and engender the murderous actions so that others may feel justified in killing too.

We have serial killers here in Canada too, but they don't get 'the chair'. Instead they get studied and counseled to the great financial relief of the taxpayer, because we all know that the appeal process for death penalty inmates is extremely prohibitive. We've gotten so good at it now that such individuals have actually said that they hope they are never again released into society because they know they will kill again. Science is the answer, not vengeance.

[billyjeff2]

W.W.J.D.??

[JMS]

W.W.J.D.??

What Would Jefferson Do? Who knows? But you might find the answer in Americas founding papers.

[Wildtim]

W.W.J.D.??

Matthew 5:21-22 (New International Version)

21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.


The "Judgment" under Mosaic law was death.

Knowing he would have to suffer it in the end you'd think he might be more opposed to it, yet somehow he knew it had its place.

[Oglethorpe]

And from the other side of the house, the "higher authority" is no more an authority than it is a figment of our imagination. What if, God forbid, we all just go in a 6' hole when we're dead?

If a lunatic takes it upon himself to prematurely end lives (as Tim says, of the "societal family"), then it is our job to protect what's left of society from the same danger. That person needs to be judged now, and the threat needs to be eliminated (not released on parole due to good behavior in 15 years).

I realize I am riding a fence because it's scary that innocent people have been put to death. My solution would be that only in the most absolute and extreme cases should capital punishment be leveraged -- IOW, where evidence is absolute and it's not just a case of a prosecutor cowboy shifting his weight in his own legal system.

Has anyone read "Innocent Man" by John Grisham?

[JimmyHAD]

Science is the answer, not vengeance.

I call it retribution.

[Oglethorpe]

We have serial killers here in Canada too, but they don't get 'the chair'. Instead they get studied and counseled to the great financial relief of the taxpayer, because we all know that the appeal process for death penalty inmates is extremely prohibitive. We've gotten so good at it now that such individuals have actually said that they hope they are never again released into society because they know they will kill again. Science is the answer, not vengeance.

I find it extremely hard to believe that this works, even in a minority of cases. I didn't watch the video yet, but I can guarantee you that even a video (regardless of what it portrays) will not be enough to convince me. I'm not sure anybody (canadian or otherwise) can guarantee with certainty that Ted Bundy + "therapy"/"counseling" + more jail time = less desire to slaughter people.

If there's a book on this with reliable sources I'll read it.

EDIT: Call me old fashioned, but I'm with Jimmy on this one. Some people need to fry.

EDIT EDIT: I watched the video and my suspicions are substantiated. There are too many variables to consider for counseling to be a viable option for serial killers. Sure it may work for some, but you can't just implement these measures under the assumption that it will work for everybody.