Thread: Constitutionality of Obamacare

Originally Posted by gugi

So, is it evident that women and non-whites have the same rights, but the US government is supposed to only protect the rights for the white men?
Women are slightly over 50% of the population and when you add non-whites, that does make a majority whose rights to 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' was treated differently. At least in the way the founding fathers did it.
Yes?

It is not the job of the United States Government to protect rights. Where did you learn that it is?

According to the Declaration, our rights are bestowed to us by our creator and are unalienable. Unalienable meaning that our rights cannot be taken away. If our rights cannot be taken away, they need no protection.

According to the Constitution, the government is not to infringe upon those rights. All rights mentioned in the Constitution are negative rights. The Constitution tells the Federal Government what it cannot do as regards our rights.

The role of government is to protect us, from each other, and from foreign enemies, so that we may freely exercise our individual rights without interference from others, including the government. Our lives can be taken away. No life, no ability to enjoy rights. Therefore it is the job of government to protect us, not our rights.

That is what the founders had in mind.

if healthcare is so great in all those other countries, why do they want to come here for medical attention and look to our system for an example of what is great. if things keep going we are going to be no better off here than anywhere else in the world. highly taxed and less than needed and rationed health benefits, just look at canada and great britain. i have been there and want none of that kind of healthcare or any of their other government programs.

Glen,
I have been reading through this forum and I agree with you in so many ways. I worked at a hospital in the South Bronx where virtually everyone was getting excellent care on your tax dollars, including their methadone. The mothers of illegitimate children get there kids free care and themselves free care plus the best baby supplies that my working sister (a teacher) can 't afford. Also the number of immigrants that are not citizens and many whom are illegal get free care. The answer to the problem will never be found because of the literal stupidity and laziness of so many people. The US people have been dumbed down to the point Congress and easily manipulate them such that history taught in elementary school is 90% lies and most people don't even know how to figure out the formula for the taxes on their home.
The problem with people like you and me are we are the wrong color, our families work for a living (I started selling my own vegetables on a card table at 12), and actually believe in something. We also didn't immigrate form a poor country and blah blah blah! My folks did some bad things yes, we came in the debtors prisons of England and yes were SLAVES for years and given freedom to have land no one would use in Georgia. Families like mine forged this country and bled to create the greatest nation the world had ever seen and now we have let others take it away and run it into the ground. The idiots(especially lawyers and their second tier students) talk about the constitution and all they see is ways to screw it up and what it means. The document means what it says and nothing more, it was not written to be interpreted, it is not a "living document". The founding fathers were mostly Deists, and held prayers before each session. The first president himself prayed often and was troubled about slavery (yes I know he owned some). They were also prepared to die and give everything to their country, unlike most politicians whose children never entered a war and most while in office, would not dare to take the field themselves to defend their country. These idiots do not see the most important part of the constitution which is that was written for the United STATES. The federal government can not control the country as it is. The federal government should be about 1/10th its size and only serve to regulate interstate and foreign trade, disputes between states, and provide for the national defense. The supreme court should also only be allowed to decide on cases between states. States should control their own healthcare so that if you want it free, move to NY or some other welfare state like it. They should also control crime, education, welfare programs, and civic infrastructure. For example, since NY and the northern states love to charge tolls on their roads, if I were governor of Georgia, I would put up a box and charge every person from a state with tolls $50 to cross into GA by any route since they loving charge tolls for federally funded highways. I also wish there were hangings on the courthouse squares for child molesters, rapists and murderers. I would also like to see spending on prisons cut by 90% and make prison worse than death such that criminal serve about 2 years and never return (ie. put them on farms and make them grow their own food and work 14 hours a day 6 days per week and only allowed Sunday off if they were gong to church). Did you know it costs about $35K yes $35,000 or more to house one prisoner for one year at medium security? (Grandaddy was the oldest and longest serving prison Warden in the US so you academic @#$% can choke on your BS statistics because I know the truth)
However, I completely agree that their should be NO government form of assistance in any form except natural disasters (under the national defense). If people payed less taxes, then the Churches and civic organizations could have more donations and could provide for ALL of those with special needs.
99% of the problems stem form a breakdown in Christian values and moral beliefs. The founding father believed that it was the good will of the people that would govern more than laws, but now we have laws for everything and our children have few values left. The nation has also forgotten its people with old families that actually gave members to found this country. Instead you have to be a immigrant, or a minority to be accomplished. Some day parents will be able to spank their kids again, some day people will go to church and pray and love one another again. Until we get the illegal immigrants out, establish law and order, and let the states govern themselves again, the situation will never get better.
As for Obama, most of the people voted against McCain, not for Obama so lets not kid ourselves. Are my views extreme? Of course they are if you have never worked a day in your life or are liberal. Would the country be better off if the things I said came to pass, of course. Not because of the policy stances, but because with values restored, people would love one another once again and we could all be better off.

Originally Posted by honedright

It is not the job of the United States Government to protect rights. Where did you learn that it is?

According to the Declaration, our rights are bestowed to us by our creator and are unalienable. Unalienable meaning that our rights cannot be taken away. If our rights cannot be taken away, they need no protection.

According to the Constitution, the government is not to infringe upon those rights. All rights mentioned in the Constitution are negative rights. The Constitution tells the Federal Government what it cannot do as regards our rights.

The role of government is to protect us, from each other, and from foreign enemies, so that we may freely exercise our individual rights without interference from others, including the government. Our lives can be taken away. No life, no ability to enjoy rights. Therefore it is the job of government to protect us, not our rights.

That is what the founders had in mind.

I am just following a simple logic. According to you women and non whites always had the same rights, bestowed to them by a non-governmental entity, you like to call a Creator. Would you deny that the government system the founding fathers set up treated them very differently than it treated white males? If yes, why did the original constitution had to be amended in this respect, if not, why the differences?
It seems to me the government protecting some people and not others doesn't square with all the pathos.

Originally Posted by 59caddy

if healthcare is so great in all those other countries, why do they want to come here for medical attention and look to our system for an example of what is great. if things keep going we are going to be no better off here than anywhere else in the world. highly taxed and less than needed and rationed health benefits, just look at canada and great britain. i have been there and want none of that kind of healthcare or any of their other government programs.

Have you got any data to back this statement?

How long were you there for, and how much experience with that system do you have? A while ago there was a thread about the healthcare in other countries and their citizens seemed fairly content with it. In fact they would use a statement analogous to yours 'I don't want any of the US healthcare system'.

yes i do have first hand experience with great britain and both my step daughter and son-in-law lived 3 years in england and germany while in the military and saw it first hand and were appalled at what their system was compared to ours. my son-in-law who is on his second tour in iraq has been stationed around the world for extended tours has nothing great to say about other countries systems of healthcare. we all were glad to be members of the military so our care was not completely reliant on foreign systems. although military care and the va hospitals are a form of social healthcare.