Thread: Constitutionality of Obamacare

Lol sorry about the soap boxing. Its just I'm an immigrant who came to this country for the ideals here, for the "American Dream", I stood in lines at the INS, I went through testing and physicals and the whole ordeal (~5 years) to get a green card, I pay my taxes and work at minimum wage to fund my education so I can get a leg up, and I still can't vote. I come from a place where there is one political party who no surprise gets all the votes. There is no choice. Here in America, I still have no choice.

Voting is the most powerful form of government there is. It's not just choosing a new leader, or simply voting for the leader of the party you're registered for. Its about choosing what you want for your country.

Originally Posted by khaos

That my friends, is

DEMOCRACY.

But we're a republic!

Originally Posted by commiecat

But we're a republic!

A constitutional republic to be exact.

Originally Posted by joscobo

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

These words by Thomas Jefferson are possible inspiration:
"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government."

Originally Posted by commiecat

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, ensure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Exactly what I was going to post. I think "Obamacare" is allowed more in the Constitution than quite a bit of other legislation.

Originally Posted by TheLaw

A constitutional republic to be exact.

Actually, a Democratic Republic, with a Constitution. Constitution is just a fancy word for "a group of permanent laws in one document"

Originally Posted by khaos

Actually, a Democratic Republic, with a Constitution. Constitution is just a fancy word for "a group of permanent laws in one document"

I didn't realize it was that fancy.

I just can't buy the "commerce clause" argument. Although I also really can't see how it has been bastardized by the US supreme court, and extended as it has.

the commerce clause was created to ensure that states did not penalize other states. I.E. New York would not impose a tariff against goods imported from Pennsylvania.

Also, since when is taking complete control of an entire industry, and creating a government run monopoly, a regulation of such interstate commerce? That is not regulation, that's nationalization.

By this argument, the Federal Government can completely take over all interstate trucking companies, without the consent of the companies, under the guise of "regulating interstate commerce." Obamacare is not about regulation, it is about nationalization (of an entire industry).

Originally Posted by mhailey

I just can't buy the "commerce clause" argument. Although I also really can't see how it has been bastardized by the US supreme court, and extend as it has.

the commerce clause was created to ensure that states did not penalize other states. I.E. New York would not impose a tariff against goods imported from Pennsylvania.

Also, since when is taking complete control of an entire industry, and creating a government run monopoly, a regulation of such interstate commerce? That is not regulation, that's nationalization.

By this argument, the Federal Government can completely take over all interstate trucking companies, without the consent of the companies, under the guise of "regulating interstate commerce." Obamacare is not about regulation, it is about nationalization (of an entire industry).

Agreed, but the more liberal judges don't adopt that viewpoint.

I'm sure someone will attempt to litigate the issue, but SCOTUS may punt it on "political question" grounds.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

See Jimmy it is funny that we look at things so differently I started working at 16 and have never stopped... I have never taken a dime of public money...I will collect SSI "If there is any left" but hey I paid for it..
Medi-care and Medicaid yeah I will get those too but hey I paid for it...
What I have a huge problem with is there are to many people being put on the wagon for those of us that work and pay taxes to pull.. I'm sorry but my back is getting sore... I couldn't careless what program gets put into effect just so long as EVERYONE pays for it... This is why I like the idea of a higher sales tax and no income tax that way the more you use the more you pay...and it is totally fair

I don't disagree with you there Glen except why throw the baby out with the bath water ? I never said it was fair and I feel the same way that you do about much of it... but not all of it.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

why throw the baby out with the bath water ?

Because babies are irritating and bath water is not. Babies will cost somethign like $500,000 to raise to adulthood apparently, and bath water cost like 10c a gallon. I'd rather have bath water any day.