Thread: Constitutionality of Obamacare

Originally Posted by gssixgun

This is one time I agree with Jimmy on a political thread

We have trampled all over the Constitution so much in the past 80 years that one more muddy boot print ain't gonna make any difference...
Trying to argue constitutionality is pretty much a joke any more...

That was my first impression as well.

I acknowledge the issue, but to single it out based on constitutionality is singling out a specific tree from an entire forest and ignoring the rest.

Not that I am saying the question is invalid or even wrong. It is not. But it would certainly be interesting in coming up with a solution that harmonizes constitutionality with the US federal government as it exists today.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I don't know the document that well. Where is it prohibited ?

The Consttitution grants authority to the Federal Government, and if the authority is not granted, then such power is reserved to the States. (see the 10th amendment). The Federal Government does not have the power to do anything it wants, unless limited by the Constitution. To the contrary, it only has the power to do those things allowed under the constitution.

I'm not saying that Obamacare is a bad idea, and I'm not saying that it is a good idea.

I want to hear opinions on whether or not it is legal. Where in the Constitution does it allow the Federal Government to create this system?

As far as trampling on the Constitution in the past, I agree. It is so soiled that you can hardly read it, but it is still the supreme law of the land. Brush the mud off, and read it.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Hadn't thought of that before Let's do away with social security, medicare, school lunch programs, pell grants, SSI or any social program

I agree, let's do it!

Originally Posted by Bruno

That was my first impression as well.

I acknowledge the issue, but to single it out based on constitutionality is singling out a specific tree from an entire forest and ignoring the rest.

Actually, to my way of thinking, its the starting point to bring the constitution back into focus and bring the country and government back in line with its founding principles. We have to start somewhere. Why not something front and center and then work backwards from there.

Originally Posted by mhailey

The Consttitution grants authority to the Federal Government, and if the authority is not granted, then such power is reserved to the States. (see the 10th amendment). The Federal Government does not have the power to do anything it wants, unless limited by the Constitution. To the contrary, it only has the power to do those things allowed under the constitution.

I'm not saying that Obamacare is a bad idea, and I'm not saying that it is a good idea.

I want to hear opinions on whether or not it is legal. Where in the Constitution does it allow the Federal Government to create this system?

As far as trampling on the Constitution in the past, I agree. It is so soiled that you can hardly read it, but it is still the supreme law of the land. Brush the mud off, and read it.

For a guy who only went as far as grammar school and hasn't studied political science I can only give my impression. That is that we the people elect representatives from our individual states who, taking our best interests to heart, make laws and sometimes even constitutional amendments on our behalf. If these laws are thought to be unconstitutional they are challenged in court and if there is any validity to the challenge the law can be brought before the supreme court where the constitutionality will be decided.

That is my take anyway. I don't know if it is constitutional or not but I figure if we can spend billions fighting Iraqis and Afghans we might be able to afford to spend some on our own folks for health care as every other nation in the industrialized world does. Just a matter of priorities.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

This is one time I agree with Jimmy on a political thread

Actually Glen we don't agree. I was being totally sarcastic in my reply. I am for all of those social programs, voted for President Obama and would do so again if the election were held tomorrow. I am 100% for a national heath care system in the USA.

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

I think they could be using the general welfare clause as one means of legal justification under The Constitution.

These words by Thomas Jefferson are possible inspiration:
"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government."

Originally Posted by joscobo

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

I think they could be using the general welfare clause as one means of legal justification under The Constitution.

These words by Thomas Jefferson are possible inspiration:
"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government."

Interesting. I've never thought of that provision of the Constitution regaridng this issue. I'll have to look into it.

Originally Posted by joscobo

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

I think they could be using the general welfare clause as one means of legal justification under The Constitution.

These words by Thomas Jefferson are possible inspiration:
"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government."

Cool where is mine??????????????
Where do I sign up, to get my Government handouts????

BTW yes I am a little bitter, as some of you know the other day was Sept 15th if you don't know what the date means, I guess you don't understand my problem then...

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

For a guy who only went as far as grammar school and hasn't studied political science I can only give my impression. That is that we the people elect representatives from our individual states who, taking our best interests to heart, make laws and sometimes even constitutional amendments on our behalf. If these laws are thought to be unconstitutional they are challenged in court and if there is any validity to the challenge the law can be brought before the supreme court where the constitutionality will be decided.

I would have to agree with Jimmy on this.
I believe, the Constitution was meant to keep any one particular group, organization, person, or state from wielding to much power.
I don't think the constitution restricts, the Federal Government, or gives it the power, to create any socialized systems. The Constitution does however give the Legislative Branch of Government the ability to create laws and amendments, as the see fit.
The Congressmen and Senators are representatives of the citizens in there respective state's, whether we agree with them, or not. So if American keep voting in representatives that are willing to turn over more and more power to the federal government, they slowly relinquish their own rights as independent states, making the Federal Government more centralized.
My other understanding is that, (even though it is not in the constitution), our founders created this system in such a way that the Legislative Branch would argue, so much, that they would never be able to get anything done and not be able to pass any laws whatsoever. This is most likely due to the fear of having a centralized Government that would have the potential to become a monarchy.

I have not taken any political science classes. This is my understanding of how, a part of, our government works. If any of it is wrong please feel free to enlighten me.
This does not reflect my views on any Socialized Government Programs, currently or proposed.
I haven't been to Grammar School either, so Jimmy feel free to fix any mistakes.

Is National Health Insurance Constitutional? » The Foundry Hope this is okay to put here but thought it was a good article.