Thread: Nature proposal that will get me hanged

If you don't subscribe to evolution leave now. It is part of the assumptions for my argument, and evolution vs. intelligent design vs. creationism is a different topic lol.

Anyways. Way way back in the day (some of you might remember) about 6 buhzillion years ago, we had a noxious, volcanic atmosphere of things such as cyanide and sulfur. Out of this mess it is theorized that amino acids, nucleic acids, and the likes were spontaneously formed (can be done in a lab in good conditions). These were the building blocks for structures of organic molecules that eventually became anaerobic bacteria. These anaerobic bacteria digested a lot of that other crap and produced O2. Over another buhzillion gerzillion trillion years, O2 became a major component of the atmosphere. Which gave rise to aerobic bacteria, which over the next 10x10^99230948234 years evolved into sentient life and eventually humans.

I would argue that from our perspective, our evolution into humans has been a net positive for us, no? I personally, would rather be a human than a bacteria... The top three reasons being- adult soda, adult bedtime, and regular bed time, if you get my drifts.

Anyways. What I'm wondering is... what if we changed our atmosphere into CO2 and life found a way (as it always has)? Life is always getting BETTER at survival, not worse (please don't bring up the modern medicine and ethics is de-evolving humans arguments YET). So what if by preventing CO2 build up we are preventing POSITIVE climate change, POSITIVE evolution, and POSITIVE benefits we can't know about?

Arguably we are destroying most life on the planet. Since we, too, cannot survive in a CO2 hot box, wouldn't it maybe be better for Earth if we moved down to caves and made our own little bubbles and niches, like the anaerobic bacteria, and let the Earth grow, repair and progress as it sees fit?

All I'm saying is that life began, changed the atmosphere, evolved, moved on, etc. Who's to say it won't/can't/shouldn't happen again? For all we know we could be replaced by elemental beings 4000x smarter than us.

No I'm not a Nazi, and we shouldn't kill off the human race, but weird to think about right?

I think the key difference with us humans is that we have changed the earth far faster than other species did before us, and evolution cannot keep pace.

And, to be honest, if you want to talk about positive evolution from our CO2 production, then I think you should first consider the possible "negative evolution" from medicine. It's not even so much the "negative" evolution from medicine as the massive populations medicine has allowed. Not even our intellect can keep up... If it could, then maybe we'd be ok.

The "craziness" that I think about is that the world would be much better off without modern medicine, even though I would not be here to enjoy it.

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

The "craziness" that I think about is that the world would be much better off without modern medicine, even though I would not be here to enjoy it.

Actually, if a mod is willing to split this thread somehow, that is an interesting discussion waiting to happen.

Obesity wouldn't be a major issue. Things like eyesight and heart problems probably would've evolved out.

Or were those problems evolved in? Just as when we became farmers our physical attributes declined, as we became intellectuals our survival attributes seem to have declined.

Heck, lets actually lump that with ethics- as modern medicine is based on ethics- it is right to keep one alive, and wrong to let them die/cause them to die. This I wholly agree with. But according to Malthusian population growth, would be catastrophic eventually.

Lol this is gonna be great. The whole topic is an intellectual can of worms. Just please, I ask that if you wanna participate, view it as an intellectual exercise. I certainly don't want to cull the population, or commit genocide, or believe in eugenics.

I just think that we as humans are so haughty in our studies of other species- culling populations, breeding (definitely not good for evolution), hypothesizing about development, et cetera- that too often we forget that we ourselves are simply another species, and in the end, Nature (/physics) controls the Earth, not us.

The atmosphere and the ecosystem which is sustained by it is in a delicate balance. The plants breath CO2 (≠C) and we breath O2. That's a good deal for us all. What we are doing is changing the environment far to quickly for our own good. We have become a force of nature like an asteroid strike only a little less sudden. That asteroid wiped out 60% of all species. Most didn't get the chance to evolve in the new environment. Personally, I'd rather not roll those dice as it might fare very badly for us.

Our ancestors knew that living in harmony with the natural world was important and we got along great that way for countless generations. How we lost our way is a matter for another discussion, but if we don't adopt that practice again we could very well be doomed to destruction.

My point is while we would like to survive... how can life progress without a species adapting/evolving, or dying out? I'm not saying we would adapt to the new CO2 atmosphere- I'm saying we would die out and be replaced. Eery thought is all.

Actually the caves idea makes sense for many reasons, even if the atmosphere remained perfectly breathable. Constant temperatures and climate control, anyone?

Originally Posted by khaos

how can life progress without a species adapting/evolving, or dying out?

It's going to happen regardless of what we do so what difference does it make

Your proposition does not really sound much different to me than "I'm going to die someday, so why am I resisting now? I should just kill myself"

enlighten me

Every now and then I think about how the earth is spinning through space with other objects flying around randomly .....asteroids, comets and such that could devastate us at any moment.

We try to be 'safe' and to avoid reckless behavior unaware that we are basically on a run away roller coaster in a shooting gallery. I wonder if we are the only species aware that we are going to die someday ?

If we as a species were still living in yurts and burning the occasional fire to stay warm, heat our home and cook, how long then before the CO2 builds up?

We as a species are committing mass genocide by the actions that we are taking.

The change for me came with a visit to the Olympic National Park. If you have not been there go.

The ecosystem there is as near perfect as can be. They are restoring it and it should be restored in its entirety in the next 50 years as long as they can kill off the bard owl (non indigenous) and reintroduce the wolf (indigenous).

The more C02 we pump out the more respiratory disease and other distresses happen to us. Even the fish are dying off.

Originally Posted by khaos

Arguably we are destroying most life on the planet. Since we, too, cannot survive in a CO2 hot box, wouldn't it maybe be better for Earth if we moved down to caves and made our own little bubbles and niches, like the anaerobic bacteria, and let the Earth grow, repair

I happened to uncover a clip of Khaos presenting his dissertation on this idea at one of his University classes...



YouTube - dr. strangelove - survival plan