Help me pick my 9mm

OH NOOOOOOO on a live target it gets even way more complicated....

I didn't even want to go there, that's why it is all just theory...
There is a theory out there now about why one target drops like the switch was turned off and the other keeps going with pretty much the exact same bullet and bullet strike...
Some people actually think this has to do with the heartbeat cycle and the effects of hydrostatic shock waves...
If the heart is on the "pumping out" part, everything gets overloaded and wham light-switch effect, if the heart is on the "draw in" part of the cycle the shock wave does no damage... It gets crazy and like I said is a moot point in a gunfight... The one fact remains that "Terminal Ballistics" only have an effect if you hit the target...

Still sounds like the chaos theory to me!

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

In the second case shots were exchanged. I won't get into a long explanation and that is what it would take but I will say that in my case so many things went through my mind so quickly when I was thinking about the possible ramifications of shooting someone. Fortunately for both of us we both missed our targets and no collateral damage but not for lack of trying.

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FWIW ... I'm glad you both missed too.

That's one scenario that I'd rather not experience.

Just read a short article by Courtney on Hydrostatic Shock. It basically agreed with what Glen and I said.

A bullet enters the body and propagates shock waves through the liquid that is human flesh. The waves get bigger as the bullet expands and penetrates deeper. What happens then is that those pressure waves migrate into major arteries and other vessels as well as rattling the nerves that the bullet passes through. Waves tend to go up and out so it would be logical that a pressure wave could reach the brain "concussing" it. Reach the heart causing it to flutter and possibly stop.

In other words. The heavier the bullet, the broader the spread of the bullet combined with depth of the wound the larger the pressure wave. The more chance you have of dropping someone.

Courtney recommends a load with a minimum of 500 ft-lbs of energy and 12" of penetration.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

OH NOOOOOOO on a live target it gets even way more complicated....

I didn't even want to go there, that's why it is all just theory...
There is a theory out there now about why one target drops like the switch was turned off and the other keeps going with pretty much the exact same bullet and bullet strike...
Some people actually think this has to do with the heartbeat cycle and the effects of hydrostatic shock waves...
If the heart is on the "pumping out" part, everything gets overloaded and wham light-switch effect, if the heart is on the "draw in" part of the cycle the shock wave does no damage... It gets crazy and like I said is a moot point in a gunfight... The one fact remains that "Terminal Ballistics" only have an effect if you hit the target...

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Sounds like a lot of hooey to me. Personally I think its all about adrenalin. It can keep a (literally) dead man going for a bit.

As far as knockdown ability its all about transfer of energy from the round to the target.

I prefer the SIG in 9MM. I have a 226 & 228. But I am a 1911 man. I have a 1916 Commercial and several others to shoot.

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Originally Posted by jreiter22

I prefer the SIG in 9MM. I have a 226 & 228. But I am a 1911 man. I have a 1916 Commercial and several others to shoot.

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here here, the 1911 is the perfect pistol format. It is pretty much un changed for so long for that reason. It just does what it is suppose to and does it well.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Back in the early '70s I once shot a large sealed can of some kind of juice with a 220 Swift 40 grain @ 4,000 fps. Results were spectacular.

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Hehe,

I loaded some 7mm Mag with a 90 grain V-max at about the same FPS.


I can't remember what it was I shot there was so little of it left!

The heavier the bullet, the broader the spread of the bullet combined with depth of the wound the larger the pressure wave. The more chance you have of dropping someone.

Courtney recommends a load with a minimum of 500 ft-lbs of energy and 12" of penetration.

Singlewedge

The first part sounds like what I've been saying. I read that to be a .45 Automatic Colt. Although the Muzzle Energy of a .45 ACP is a little shy of the figure Courtney recommends (350) you must remember that the .45 Automatic Colt Pistol was DEVELOPED with the idea in mind of Stopping a Human Attacker.
Buying ANY gun is only the first part of a long journey. You have to train (shoot a lot, take classes) train some more and keep training. You must decide just what you are prepared to do, if the unthinkable happens! That decision cannot wait until you are confronted with certain death. It's WAY too late to begin to contemplate responsibility for your actions, the prospect of ending the life of another person and the legal/moral issues.
All I'm saying to you is that you have to know what you are getting into.

Regards,

Jeeter

Yes but what you must remember is when they developed the .45ACP there was nothing known about what a particular caliber or load would actually do. All they knew was bigger round better result. By the time they developed the 45 the battle was over and there were no more 6'5" 350lb Tongans to practice with.

I recall in the early 70s when they really started doing ballistics tests they were dumbfounded with how poorly the 45 did and I remember the studies entitled "the myth of the 45". take that as you will.