Thread: Heroes For Gods?

Originally Posted by icedog

...Am I alone in seeing the similarities in these two horrible crimes?...

It hadn't occurred to me, but it's an interesting comparison.

Matthew 7:22 & 7:23.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

yea but you see if its your way of thinking it's perfectly OK. Its the other guy or group who are the criminals and terrorists and all that.

You could also argue that for a true atheist (or nihilist), it really doesn't matter if people are killing or being killed, regardless of the motive. Even the socially constructed morality is pointless in the end, once your eyes close for the last time.

Originally Posted by Del1r1um

You could also argue that for a true atheist (or nihilist), it really doesn't matter if people are killing or being killed, regardless of the motive. Even the socially constructed morality is pointless in the end, once your eyes close for the last time.

This is interesting, the way you put it. I never thought of it that way. Based on that argument then, could it also be argued that an athiest or nihilist would regard life as the quintessence of preciousness since that's all they have?

Sorry, your post just got me thinking out loud.

Chris L

What about the religious folk who believe that God is love and that we are to love and do good to everybody, even those who hate us? There are, I think, quite a few of us.

Originally Posted by norman931

What about the religious folk who believe that God is love and that we are to love and do good to everybody, even those who hate us? There are, I think, quite a few of us.

Are you looking for some sort of judgement?

Do you feel that you are right and everyone who believes differently is wrong?

Jimmy hit the nail on the head there. That passage links to my point that it doesnt say anywhere in religious texts to hurt others.

What I cant understand is why religion has caused more wars, more death and more pain than any other thing in the history of humanity. Its the been the cause of all these things and a divider of man rather than a solution to problems and a unifier of man.

Besides which, the notion of killing in the name of God is a total oxymoron. I challenge anyone to show me a passage in ANY religious book where it explicitly states that those who do not follow that particular doctrine are sub human/infidels/animals or whatever, and that therefore there should be a holy war to wipe them out.

I said on the other Ft Hood thread that I dont think religion is anything more than guidance on how to live your life, to get on with your fellow man and spiritual counselling at difficult times. Once you take it to an extreme, its just as bad and no different to any other form of extremism, be it nazism or communism.

Originally Posted by ChrisL

This is interesting, the way you put it. I never thought of it that way. Based on that argument then, could it also be argued that an athiest or nihilist would regard life as the quintessence of preciousness since that's all they have?

Sorry, your post just got me thinking out loud.

Chris L

sure you could argue that, and I would be getting way off topic to continue, but you can't really place any meaningful moral boundaries on anyone else's behavior.

I was just reading the last post Ice... I am trying to think of a way to imagine someone who doesn't think he or she has it right, and others have it wrong (religious or otherwise). Atheists think they are right, and often cite atrocities committed by "believers" as justifying evidence for their beliefs. The religious believe that they have found truth and others have not yet encountered it.

Even in our daily actions, don't we think that we are acting in the right way most of the time while others may be making mistakes? We know the right way to raise our kids and others don't etc.

Other than that, there may be a few (like aristotle) who believe that true knowledge is in knowing that you know nothing... and at that point, who is to say if it is right to kill in the name of a God that may or may not exist?

Originally Posted by Del1r1um

I was just reading the last post Ice... I am trying to think of a way to imagine someone who doesn't think he or she has it right, and others have it wrong (religious or otherwise). Atheists think they are right, and often cite atrocities committed by "believers" as justifying evidence for their beliefs. The religious believe that they have found truth and others have not yet encountered it.

Even in our daily actions, don't we think that we are acting in the right way most of the time while others may be making mistakes? We know the right way to raise our kids and others don't etc.

Other than that, there may be a few (like aristotle) who believe that true knowledge is in knowing that you know nothing... and at that point, who is to say if it is right to kill in the name of a God that may or may not exist?

The way I see it is that it might be better for the general population, the citizens of Earth if any relationship one may feel they have with any supreme being is kept as a private affair between those two. I feel it would behoove the people of the planet if somehow we learned to look at a much bigger picture as neighbors and co-dependants of our only planet and be willing to abandon all devotion to any omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient god and leave our attitudes of cultural and spiritual superiority at the door. In other words, I personally believe that as everyone can't possibly be right, it is more likely that everyone is wrong. I believe that if there is truly an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being somehow holding the strings, there is no logical reason to practice any sort of activity designed to flatter this god. In fact, it is actually counter productive. I'll explain why.

Let's just for the sake of the argument allow for the existence of an omnipotent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing), omnipresent (everywhere all the time) being (let's abbreviate and call this supreme being the OOO). So if the OOO has created you and me and everyone else, as the OOO is infallible, all things are in a sense, perfect. If the OOO has made everyone then it would have no reason to be vain and seek or even appreciate any practices of worship. If the OOO has any concern for what we as its most active handiwork do at all is it would probably not want us undoing its efforts by killing one another. It would be a very childish supreme being that would call for one group of its craftsmanship to harbor any hate or malice toward any other group of its craftsmanship.

I believe there is no such being. I believe we are (unfortunately) as supreme as the beings on Earth are going to get. I believe that we should admit (at very least) the possibility that we have been wrong, all along and we should toss our cultural and spiritual devotions over the side save for those portions that would tend to draw us together as one large group (like music, fashions, art and recipes). I believe we would be infinitely better if we eliminated devotion to any OOO (who clearly doesn't need any help) and become completely devoted to helping one another and coexisting in peaceful harmony.