Thread: FREEDOM OF SPEECH

I completely understand OP's aggravation with such behavior. There are plenty of ways to say something, or not say anything at all. Sometimes managing an online forum feels like being a kindergarten teacher, or a policeman, and this is perhaps the least "fun" part of the "job" (unless you enjoy this type of thing).

Personally I have never understood why some folks choose to say certain things the way they do. Sometimes I attribute it to cultural difference - there are people here from all over the world after all. Other times, I think it is clearly bad manners and stupidity.

However, "Freedom of speech" is somewhat of a loaded expression - even in a private forum such as this. On a purely philosophical level, it begs the question:

Where does freedom of speech on a privately owned forum start - and where does it end?

Of course, the premise that bad manners, hateful speech, offensive graphic content, covert & overt marketing tactics etc. etc. are unacceptable - is a perfectly logical one. It is crucial to enforce these issues in order to obtain a good environment for serious and in depth discussion about any subject. No argument there.

BUT - and I say this with utmost care and respect - It seems to me that there may have been instances (not the one mentioned by OP of course, but others) where the finger may have been a bit "trigger happy".

Either / Or - like you said in so many words - it's not a Democracy it's a dictatorship. It's YOUR PRIVATELY OWNED dictatorship. and anyone who does not like it can get lost.

I'm happy to be here.

"I matched the IP address to distortedpinguin , so the temp ban is now a permanent one. "


Jeeez, That guy must be a real nutcase!




Kristoffer

Originally Posted by Alchemist

However, "Freedom of speech" is somewhat of a loaded expression - even in a private forum such as this. On a purely philosophical level, it begs the question:

Where does freedom of speech on a privately owned forum start - and where does it end?

.

To answer the question, it starts and ends where the owner says it does.

I have read everything pertaining to this situation - including the thread "In the Spirit of Barck" (which is key here) and I must say that DistortedPenguin's post:

“Be careful what you say or someone may accuse you of spreading anti-Obama Rhetoric.”

had nothing to do with you specifically or any moderator. DistortedPenguin had been accused as stated in his quote in a previous thread and this was merely a reference to that.

Saying that this quote was a reference to the way you moderate is merely an assumption and demonstrates a lack of understanding of the situation. Not that my opinion matters, but I would request that moderators more thoroughly investigate and take the time to UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION AND THE CONTEXT before deciding to cut someone like that.

that was what he posted the second time after he complained that he had been moderated. And had he posted that the first time, he he wouldn't have been moderated. I did not misunderstand it at all.

The first time he posted the quote I posted above. I reacted to that one because it pointed the finger at the mod team.

His second post was first a complaint about being moderated, followed by the part that you included, making it appear as if that was what he moderated for. It wasn't. that part was fine. Him whining about freedom of speech and claiming lying about what he was modded for. That was why I temp banned him.

As for doing a more thorough job: I spend more than 2 hours per day here, with nearly half my posts being site discussion or administrative discussion. Perhaps it is not too much to ask to also consider our point of view? This could have ended in any number of ways. He could have started his post with 'There was a misunderstanding with my previous post, I meant...' or 'My last post was deleted. without repeating it my point was that ...' or he could have done any number of different things and it would have ended there. But he didn't.

It's easy enough for you or anyone to complain and cry foul. Yet you are not the one working for hours, day after day to keep this site and this community alive.

Originally Posted by Bruno

It's easy enough for you or anyone to complain and cry foul. Yet you are not the one working for hours, day after day to keep this site and this community alive.

We appreciate it. Sincerely. It is good to have a cool free place to come and discuss various topic. But something about this just didn't seem right and so I could not remain quiet. Let me just say that freedom of speech still does exist here. I can say whatever I want right now and post it to this thread. NO cops or government officials will come to my door demanding my arrest. That's my freedom. If you choose to ban me for it, then that is your freedom. If we choose to, in turn, see you as a tyrant, that is our freedom. Freedoms can only be restricted by law - not by anything you or any moderator on any forum on the internet does.

Originally Posted by tabre

We appreciate it. Sincerely. It is good to have a cool free place to come and discuss various topic. But something about this just didn't seem right and so I could not remain quiet. Let me just say that freedom of speech still does exist here. I can say whatever I want right now and post it to this thread. NO cops or government officials will come to my door demanding my arrest. That's my freedom. If you choose to ban me for it, then that is your freedom. If we choose to, in turn, see you as a tyrant, that is our freedom. Freedoms can only be restricted by law - not by anything you or any moderator on any forum on the internet does.

True. In the real world there is freedom of speech.
But if people come here, we ask then to abide by our rules.

If they couldn't morally accept our limitations, then you shouldn't have clicked 'yes I accept' on our terms of service. We ask people to be polite and not be provocative. We ask it again in the conversation guidelines.

So if they don't follow those rules, they shouldn't complain if they are being banned (or simply PMed with a question not do do something). You agreed to behave up front. If you then break your word, you have no place here.

Is that unreasonable?

Originally Posted by Bruno

True. In the real world there is freedom of speech.
But if people come here, we ask then to abide by our rules.

If they couldn't morally accept our limitations, then you shouldn't have clicked 'yes I accept' on our terms of service. We ask people to be polite and not be provocative. We ask it again in the conversation guidelines.

So if they don't follow those rules, they shouldn't complain if they are being banned (or simply PMed with a question not do do something). You agreed to behave up front. If you then break your word, you have no place here.

Is that unreasonable?

No it is not unreasonable. Not at all. I've said my opinion. Done with this thread now. Goodnight.

I think people misunderstand freedom of speech. Freedom of speech applies to government action only. If someone comes into my living room, I have no obligation to listen to whatever crap they want to spew and I can restrict speech in my house just as owners of private establishments can restrict speech in their establishments. Without government action, no one can claim infringement on their freedom of speech. The point is, we are guests here and should behave accordingly. Thanks for all the hard work you guys do around here, mods

i would like to chime in if i may. the "conversation" is a lot of the time a political debate and anytime there is political debate there will be things said that could potentially offend someone. i myself have been offended at some of the things said on here. i do not run to moderators for relief.
my opinion on any politically based debate is, if you have thin skin and are easily offended it is not a place for you. life is not fair, it offends all at times as do debates on most any subject.
i have had debates with gugi and he and i do not agree. i have had debate with bruno on subjects. that does not make either of them or myself any less of a member willing to help others with the experience of straight shaving, which is basically what we are all here for in the first place.
we will all have a difference of opinions and styles of saying what is on our minds. someone may or may not like another members style or the context of what they may have said. my thoughts on that is "get over it and move on"
REMEMBER, we are a select community brought together by a common cause, straight shaving and enjoyment of that hobby or whatever you may want to refer to it as.
i hope i have expressed my thoughts in logical way. that is also why i started the thread last week as to where each of of stands on politics in general, it was a reference point for all to look at and know where each of us stand. i think this makes it easier to understand what another members says and where they are "coming from"