Thread: If a tree falls in the forest..you're gonna hate this one.

It doesn't require an observer to determine if it can be heard. It either can be or it can not be. Human observation is not required to make sound waves detectable. They either are or they are not detectable. Sound is not existential.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

They either are or they are not detectable.

That is correct. But if the sound from the falling tree cannot be detected because nobody is around to detect it, then it cannot be heard. And if it cannot be heard, then you are saying it is not sound. So then the falling tree did not make a sound

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

That is correct. But if the sound from the falling tree ..... So then the falling tree did not make a sound

What??

James.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

What??

James.

My sentiment exactly!

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

That is correct. But if the sound from the falling tree cannot be detected because nobody is around to detect it, then it cannot be heard. And if it cannot be heard, then you are saying it is not sound. So then the falling tree did not make a sound

just because it isn't heard does not make it incapable of being heard. Remember my recording devices and the innumerable animals that also can detect sound? Besides sound doesn't take a passive observance to make it sound. When sound becomes detected, it is heard. If it isn't heard it doesn't cease to he sound.

You know, I have been thinking more about this. If a tree falls in the forest, it must not have been sound. So, whether anyone is there or not, it was never sound in the first place!! It was a trick question all along!!!

James.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

If it isn't heard it doesn't cease to he sound.

But if it cannot be heard, you say it ceases to be sound. And if nobody is around to hear it, it cannot be heard!

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

But if it cannot be heard, you say it ceases to be sound. And if nobody is around to hear it, it cannot be heard!

The sound waves are capable of being detected irrespective of if someone is there to detect it or not. They do not have to have someone or something there to detect them to be detectable. Even at that, they may be in a frequency that a human can detect but a dog can. That doesn't mean that the sound doesn't exist. There are trillions of nuetrinos going all through our bodies (traveling in and out) that we can not see or detect in any way, but the fact that we don't observe/recognize that it is happening doesn't mean that it isn't happening.

Fwiw, I've seen documentaries where cameras were left in forest and they picked up the sounds from fallen trees. No one was there, and predictably sounds were made. It's not as nuanced a question as we might think.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

The sound waves are capable of being detected

Not if nobody wants to bother with trying to detect them. Who would care? It's obvious that if someone sets out to detect them, he or she will

Originally Posted by richmondesi

The sound waves are capable of being detected irrespective of if someone is there to detect it or not. They do not have to have someone or something there to detect them to be detectable. Even at that, they may be in a frequency that a human can detect but a dog can. That doesn't mean that the sound doesn't exist. There are trillions of nuetrinos going all through our bodies (traveling in and out) that we can not see or detect in any way, but the fact that we don't observe/recognize that it is happening doesn't mean that it isn't happening.

Fwiw, I've seen documentaries where cameras were left in forest and they picked up the sounds from fallen trees. No one was there, and predictably sounds were made. It's not as nuanced a question as we might think.

Highly suspect data here.

So, how often do trees just happen to fall? Not very. How long does the battery last in a video camera? Not very long. The chances of a recording device being in the right place, at the right time, seeing the tree falling, of it's own accord?

Or, did the camera not actually "see" the tree falling, only the sound it made? In which case, there is no evidence at to what actually made the sound. It may well have been a bear, doing what bears are famous for doing in the woods....
I'm calling shenanagins on that documentary!