Thread: If a tree falls in the forest..you're gonna hate this one.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

Sound = Capable of Being heard

So if it's too quiet to be heard, it's not a sound?

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

So if it's too quiet to be heard, it's not a sound?

Of course not... There are no sounds being made outside of my range of hearing. The world revolves around me, so if I can't hear/see it nothing happened.

Dr. Doolittle said the animals in the forest hear every tree fall, and they are more than a little upset at the arrogance of humans that think they are the only ones can detect sound.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

Sound = Capable of Being heard

DOES NOT NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE HEARD...

Well that's good, because I've stopped listening!

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Well that's good, because I've stopped listening!

Obviously

Way back about page 7 I got tired of reading all the banter that was going on between a couple of members so this may have been address and I haven't experienced it. (Relative to me the pages I didn't read don't exist. However, there is evidence to suggest that they do. My observation of the page numbers suggest that there is a lot of information that I didn't read so forgive me if you experienced those additional pages and they do exist from your observance.)

The original question is whether the tree makes a noise. Sound and noise are not the same. If we listen to a Mozart opera, we hear a sound. It is relative whether that sound is music or noise.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

No, that just means it wasn't heard.

I agree. The sound waves are there but not converted to sound by one's ear drum. In this case the question is whether the sound waves were converted to sound. I.e., sound and sound waves are two different closely related experiences. The deaf man may feel the sound waves but be unable to convert them into sound.

Originally Posted by bbshriver

I took some introductory acoustics classes in college and my take is that it would producs sound in the sense that sound-waves are produced, however I think in order to classify as noise it must be heard. So sound yes, noise no.

Your last statement should actually be: "So sound waves yes, noise no."

Noise is relative to the one who hears it as in my example of the opera. To some it is beautiful music or beautiful sounds. To some it is just noise and is irritating to hear. In other words, noise is a subset of sound.

On a similar philosophical preponderance is this: Did the Big Bang actually make a Bang? No, because a bang is a set of sound waves or some other type of wave and as was pointed out early in this thread sound waves, and other types of waves, do not exist in the vacuum of space. Since there was no one there to experience, did it happen? This is one event that did not have to be observed to have happened. Also, if 99 trees falling make a sound to the observer and one didn't, the statement that trees falling make a sound is true but has an exception, as does every rule. The one tree making no sound does not disprove the other 99 events. Sorry if I am rambling or making no sence. It is lunch time and I am hungry. Or maybe I am just experiencing hunger. LOL

Similarly, the Star Trek movies and set of spin-off series are usually based on the laws of physics, but in the movie Star Trek, the Undiscovered Country the shock wave from the explosion on Praxis would not have existed due to the laws of physics in the vacuum of space and would not have impacted the space ship.

Noise can be defined as "sound of any kind" the nuanced definitions that you got into not withstanding.

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Originally Posted by richmondesi

Sound = Capable of Being heard

So if it's too quiet to be heard, it's not a sound?

Originally Posted by richmondesi

Of course not...

Then it is a sound even though it isn't capable of being heard since it is too quiet?

I guess "capable of being heard" requires at least one potential observer to have a capacity to hear

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoglahoo Quote: Originally Posted by richmondesi Sound = Capable of Being heard So if it's too quiet to be heard, it's not a sound?

Quote:

Originally Posted by richmondesi Of course not...

Then it is a sound even though it isn't capable of being heard since it is too quiet?

I guess "capable of being heard" requires at least one potential observer to have a capacity to hear

OH!

I like this!

It's like when Captain Kirk would create a logic loop when talking to an evil computer, and then smoke would start coming out..."does not compute....does not compute...."

Originally Posted by Seraphim

create a logic loop when talking to an evil computer, and then smoke would start coming out...

This is easy for those of us with small children

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

This is easy for those of us with small children

But young children often resort to the "Tribble gambit" whereby they create a fast growing mess, which distracts you from being able to formulate an effective logical train of thought.