Thread: If a tree falls in the forest..you're gonna hate this one.

Imagine my name is Dylan, and I hone razors. Let's say I hone 10 razors per day, and I've been honing at that rate for 10 years. I have shave tested every razor that I've ever honed, and 99% of them passed the shave test on the first try and were deemed shave ready. I now sit down and hone your razor for you and, without testing it, I tell you that it is shave ready. Is it? Do I have justification to say that it is shave ready? Can it be proven that it is or is not shave ready without testing? What if 100% of my razors were shave ready on the first try? What if 50% were?

Falling tree = kinetic energy
kinetic energy + ground = movement stopped
movement stopped = energy dissipated as a wave in the ground and sound in the air

Yep, I study engineering :P

Then some will say: A noise is something that someone can hear.

Animals hear WAY better than we do. And if a tree fall, some birds will start flying around and small animals will run the other way, even if there is no human around.

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

Imagine my name is Dylan?

Shouldn't be too difficult

Ok, so, you would have a working hypothesis that the razor is shave ready, based on all prior evidence.

Every time you hone a razor, that's basically what you form, that's what you take to the sink when you shave test it. Your hypothesis is either proved correct or incorrect.

In this scenario, there is a test. There is not one for the tree thing.

It's interesting, seeing as you mentioned you don't believe in relativism that your truth that the razor is or isn't shave ready, is relative to you. It does not mean it will be true for me.

Originally Posted by gregs656

Shouldn't be too difficult

Ok, so, you would have a working hypothesis that the razor is shave ready, based on all prior evidence.

Every time you hone a razor, that's basically what you form, that's what you take to the sink when you shave test it. Your hypothesis is either proved correct or incorrect.

In this scenario, there is a test. There is not one for the tree thing.

It's interesting, seeing as you mentioned you don't believe in relativism that your truth that the razor is or isn't shave ready, is relative to you. It does not mean it will be true for me.

The fact that there is a test is irrelevant if you consider a scenario in which you do not apply the test.

As we all know, shave ready is a relative term - when I say a razor is shave ready, I mean that it meets my definition of shave ready. This holds, whether truth is relative or not.

So, am I justified or not? How many razors do I have to have honed, and what must my success ratio be for me to say that the next razor I hone will be shave ready on the first try? How many and what percent if I wanted to sell razors without testing them? How many and what percent for you to be willing to bet your life that my razor is shave ready? (Maybe higher/"real" stakes will change how someone views this.)

Sorry I'm here late and I did not read the entire thread, but I saw somebody say that depending on the observer, the activity (sound, energy, etc) both happens and doesn't happen.

Philosophically, the implications of the question are very Cartesian (remember, I think, therefore I am?).

Physically, on a small enough scale of observation, the implications are also Cartesian.

"Things" can both happen and not happen at the same time.

This may be a little bit off topic, but considering the nature of the question (does something happen if it is not observed, or blocked from observation, does it still happen), I would bring up the double-slit experiment.

Double-slit experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by billyjeff2

Back in my college days I took a number of philosophy courses. One of the questions we studied had to do with the age old question of whether, if a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear it, does it makes a noise? I ended up convinced it does not.
As my professor would say: "Care to discuss?"

Ahh the old George Berkeley question..
reminds me of this:
YouTube - fresh prince in bel air, western philosophy