This thread ought to be a doozie.

[Oglethorpe]

Jimmy's post is interesting, speaking of Lloyd. If all Christians have to go on is the Bible, what if there was no Bible (I know it may be tough for some of you to get your heads around this).

Some guys like Mark and Tony say they see the influence of God in everyday life, but if there was no Bible to explain it, how would you know it was the Christian god?


As for the poll, I voted "no". And then I read the last sentence of the OP and I apologize for stinking my non-believer fat head in the mix.

[JMS]

You want some of that foney charismatic slop baloney? Too bad. The Lord has provided all that you need, if that won't do then that just won't do. And if you think that the Lord is going to mess around with you indefinitely then here's one for you.
Rev 22:11 - He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Or how's this?

Proverbs 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
1:24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
1:25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
1:26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
1:27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
1:28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
1:30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
1:31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
1:32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
1:33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

Your post seems to take on a bullying tone. Is that the case? Is this how you attract others to your beliefs?
I asked a sincere question. Could you answer me from your heart?

[JMS]

Jimmy's post is interesting, speaking of Lloyd. If all Christians have to go on is the Bible, what if there was no Bible (I know it may be tough for some of you to get your heads around this).

Some guys like Mark and Tony say they see the influence of God in everyday life, but if there was no Bible to explain it, how would you know it was the Christian god?


As for the poll, I voted "no". And then I read the last sentence of the OP and I apologize for stinking my non-believer fat head in the mix.

Post anytime you like in any of my threads. Maybe we will be drinking a fine Trippel at the same time. Toast

[Oglethorpe]

Post anytime you like in any of my threads. Maybe we will be drinking a fine Trippel at the same time. Toast

Ok then, Mark. You are a gentleman and a scholar.

[JimmyHAD]

Jimmy's post is interesting, speaking of Lloyd. If all Christians have to go on is the Bible, what if there was no Bible (I know it may be tough for some of you to get your heads around this).

Some guys like Mark and Tony say they see the influence of God in everyday life, but if there was no Bible to explain it, how would you know it was the Christian god?


As for the poll, I voted "no". And then I read the last sentence of the OP and I apologize for stinking my non-believer fat head in the mix.

I may seem like a schizophrenic who seems to be posting on both sides of the issue to anyone who has read my posts. There is a certain amount of truth to that as I am torn by seeing both sides of the issue. Believe it or not I once led a Bible class teaching the Gospel of John in a Baptist church many years ago. I was a fervent believer and one of those "God said it , I believe it and that settles it" folks.

So I believe that without the book there would be no Christian religion. The book is our basis for belief and I agree with Reverend Lloyd-Jones that it is our sole authority. I believed the Bible was the inerrant word of God and then I came to a place where I began reading textual criticism and went downhill from there. So I could not vote because I don't know. I would love to believe that the 'good news' is true but the questions on the accuracy of the scriptures is a stumbling block for me. I still go back and forth because the alternative to belief is not a very attractive prospect.

[Tony Miller]

I believed the Bible was the inerrant word of God and then I came to a place where I began reading textual criticism and went downhill from there.

And many believers would argue that this is exactly what Satan has worked for.

I cannot tell you if Jesus is God or if there is anything other than the here and now. I just know what I believe. I didn't go looking for it, it found me. Just 5 years ago would be the guy posting on the opposite side of what I believe today. One day everything changed, I was unhappy with our declining society and joked with my friends that I need to find another world to live it......a few months later that "world" found me". My wishes changed, my desires changed. The ways of the world seem as if they are for someone else now, not me.

Whether it is all true or not matters not really, as my here and now is inherently better than it was before. I am happier and need far less.

Your mileage may vary though.

Tony

[ControlFreak1]

Your post seems to take on a bullying tone. Is that the case? Is this how you attract others to your beliefs?
I asked a sincere question. Could you answer me from your heart?

You just like to pick and choose which parts of the word of God that you like, don't you?
We are also 'salt', some people don't like that, salt among other things can be irritating.
You know why they killed Jesus? Because they didn't like what He said or the way that He said it.
Do you know what was said about the apostle Paul?

Didn't take you for the thin skinned type.

But I like this thread.

[Seraphim]

Jimmy's post is interesting, speaking of Lloyd. If all Christians have to go on is the Bible, what if there was no Bible (I know it may be tough for some of you to get your heads around this).

Some guys like Mark and Tony say they see the influence of God in everyday life, but if there was no Bible to explain it, how would you know it was the Christian god?


As for the poll, I voted "no". And then I read the last sentence of the OP and I apologize for stinking my non-believer fat head in the mix.

I have met, and spoken with this man, Fr, Daniel from Indonesia.

Fr. Daniel was born into a middle-class family in Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world. He was raised primarily by his maternal grandparents, who took great care to make sure that he received a complete religious education. Devout by nature, he studied the Qur’an, and accepted with great piety the teachings of Islam as they were passed on to him. As a Muslim, he opposed the teaching of Christianity, and was proud of his ability to win debates with Christians. He was nevertheless intrigued by the passages in the Qur’an that referred to Jesus, the son of Mary. One day during his evening Islamic prayers, Christ appeared to him in a miraculous and life-changing vision, similar to the experience St. Paul had on the road to Damascus. From that moment, Fr. Daniel’s life was radically and permanently altered

So, in this case, the Christian God made himself known to Father Daniel outrside of the context of Biblical study.

[ENUF2]

You want personal testimony here it is. Believe me it took time to get it down to this length.

I surrendered this life to Christ at the age of 32, before that I had no want or desire for Religion. It would take way too long to try and explain all the bad that had formed this life. From a father's death at 4, to an abusive step-father with the battle that followed, to an ex-wife who gave up our daughter and moved in with another man while I served this country. Though I had a hardened heart filled with hate I always felt there had to be more but was unsure where to find it. Even though I didn't grow up in Church, I did find my way there at about age 18. I played the game, (walked the isle, said "the prayer",took the dip) but that was all it was, a game,there was no change & worse than that I was now becoming a smart devil because I had a small bit of Bible knowledge and would use it to brow beat others.
The final straw was being over seas unable to do, to protect, to fix what happened with my ex-wife. I literally lost it. Not being a small guy (about 6"1", 245lbs at the time) and use to abuse, I began taking out my frustration on practically everyone around me. Over the next few years I spent time in a military brig & various city & county jails. You see, no matter where I was or what I was doing I was always a slave to a self-centered, self-righteous attitude.
After about 4 years of "destruction mode" I met the woman God would use to change this life. Divorcee with 2 kids of her own, another who did not grow up in Church. This beautiful lady showed care for me even in some of our darker moments. The Children made me think back to my own step-father & I told myself "I never want to be like him. But how?" As time went on, some of the hardness of my heart began to fade but I was still cold toward any thought of Church or God. See, being where I was I blamed Him for everything including growing up the way I did. Being stubborn wasn't the half of it I was a fighter and not about to give up.
We married April 26,1995 away from family and friends & on a beach instead of in a Church with only 2 other witnesses (So I thought but God is always there). My family likes her and her's like me which is another strange thing because no one ever cared for me. My new Bride was working as a Nurse's Aide for the "Ursuline Convent" taking care of old Nuns of all things (who would of thought it, Church, God, get the picture).
One day, a Saturday, after a couple of drinks, my wife told me,"I think I'd like to go to Church. Working with these Nuns, Taking them to mass and such has made me wonder if this is all there is". Being the cold hearted person I was you know what came next - Fine. But I get to pick the place. (What? Where did that come from? It may have been my love for her because I was sure there was nothing there for me). I knew where I wanted to go to this little country Church in a community of only about 200 where My Grandmother had taken me when I was about 4 or 5. I figured I'd be safe there. I was wrong.
They ask me my name, I told them, Immediately some of these old codgers said, "I knew your Grandma, welcome". Understand , Kindness, love and compassion was foreign to me outside my family. Never seen it, never knew it, everything was becoming a blur.
It did take long,( Sunday morning services only) about 2 to 3 months. All I can say is I surrendered to my now Lord & Savior Jesus Christ that day. The King James version has a term for what I was feeling it is "Quickened". That morning I felt I wanted to die ( I guess you could say I did.- The old was gone, the new had come,- I had been Crucified with Christ & now I'm free!). That morning God's Spirit was all over me & I knew it. There was a possibility I could have jumped out of my skin if something didn't happen. I don't remember the sermon but I remember the still small voice from within telling me "I Love you & I"m calling you to be with me." That's it,I was done. As the invitation began I was already bawling like a baby blowing snot, eyes watering, the works, but no shame, no pride, only a draw and a sense of peace which took me to the front of that place where I placed everything on the Alter.
On my face, humble before God & all those present I cried out," Lord God forgive me! I was blind,you made me see. I don't want this life no more, change me, make me what You would have me to be. For the Love of Christ help me!"Amen.
I can't tell you how long I was there in that position. I had no sense of time at that moment. For the first time it didn't matter. No preformed plan, no understanding of "what's next", none of it mattered. I have been SAVED! Forgiven of all my sin, released from my guilt. It was just what Jesus told Nicodemus,I was born again! What a release, What a feeling, I was alive! No longer spiritually dead but made alive in Christ Jesus my Lord!
I never went back from there. Jesus said,"Those who remain in Me will bear much fruit "My wife & kids came to Christ, The first fruits of this new life. God has placed the right people at the right time ever since that day to continue to grow us in our faith. He has not only gave me a heart for others, He has used my thirst for knowledge to keep teaching me about Himself even 13 years later. I have worth, I have direction ,I have purpose, all in Christ Jesus my Lord. He has shown me how to forgive all in my past that did harm to this life. He taught me responsibility for my actions. After all of this He place those people in front of me for closure. He has even given me a relationship with my daughter of that first marriage 22 years later. If I were called home to heaven today I would have no regrets because His purpose for me would be fulfilled.
Call it what you wish but that day there was a spiritual change which effected every part of this life & the lives around it. Since then I've found the words for my purpose. "All that I am for all that You are. No more, no less." I have a relationship with God the Father through God the Son, by God the Holy Spirit and He calls me friend- His terms, His way.
Religion without relationship is worthless & there are way too many out there operating that way. One day they will hear "away from Me, I never knew you" If they do not surrender to God's call. The Relationship makes Religion worship and that is what a changed life needs.

[ControlFreak1]

1Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

See the problem?