Thread: Dark Matter

Just because the universe is expanding doesn't mean that everything is heading in the same direction. It just means that whatever direction things are heading in, the universe is expanding too. Andromeda galaxy for example is headed our way and we could collide ... head on!

Think of the flaw in your argument like this:
I've got a grenade. Now the atoms in this grenade and in our bodies represent galactic matter. To represent the expansion of the universe. When I pull the pin, you and I are gonna walk one baby step per second backwards. By your logic, neither of us will get hurt by shrapnel.

Originally Posted by xman

Just because the universe is expanding doesn't mean that everything is heading in the same direction. It just means that whatever direction things are heading in, the universe is expanding too. Andromeda galaxy for example is headed our way and we could collide ... head on!

Think of the flaw in your argument like this:
I've got a grenade. Now the atoms in this grenade and in our bodies represent galactic matter. To represent the expansion of the universe. When I pull the pin, you and I are gonna walk one baby step per second backwards. By your logic, neither of us will get hurt by shrapnel.

My understanding is that the galaxies WILL collide in around 3 billion years... Luckily, that won't be my problem

Originally Posted by Seraphim

I just found it interesting that scientific unobserveable, undetectable, "inferred from" stuff is OK. But religious unobservable, undetectable, inferred stuff gets dismissed out of hand as preposterous.

I think the distinction is pretty clear - scientists can repeat over and over the observations, and any other scientist can repeat it too.
Now my pitchers are still full of water and I drained the tub already, so so far I'm not impressed. Now I don't have a wife and don't want children, so I cannot really check the repeatability of the proposition you mentioned.
What is troubling with this though is that the religious experiment are inherently unrepeatable, due to sovereignty of god. That's an enormous distinction. In the scientific framework the underlying axiom is that even purely random events (say photon emission) have perfectly quantifiable probabilities.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

But we will surely find out about the existance of God within our lifetimes.....or soon afterwards!

Or not - that's a very distinct possibility as well. I think according to your religion you (meaning the thing that is supposed to do the finding out) did not exist say 200 years ago, but you still believe that you will exist forever, or at least 200 years from now.
That is only one possibility with an obvious broken symmetry. Another possibility would be that the same way you had a distinct beginning you have a distinct end, and yet another that you (or some part of you) didn't have a beginning and won't have an end.

Originally Posted by xman

Just because the universe is expanding doesn't mean that everything is heading in the same direction. It just means that whatever direction things are heading in, the universe is expanding too. Andromeda galaxy for example is headed our way and we could collide ... head on!

Think of the flaw in your argument like this:
I've got a grenade. Now the atoms in this grenade and in our bodies represent galactic matter. To represent the expansion of the universe. When I pull the pin, you and I are gonna walk one baby step per second backwards. By your logic, neither of us will get hurt by shrapnel.

No.

According to the Big Bang, you, me and the shrapnel all came from the hand grenade. And so if we are all flying outwards, how are we going to collide?

Originally Posted by gugi

I think the distinction is pretty clear - scientists can repeat over and over the observations, and any other scientist can repeat it too.
Now my pitchers are still full of water and I drained the tub already, so so far I'm not impressed. Now I don't have a wife and don't want children, so I cannot really check the repeatability of the proposition you mentioned.
What is troubling with this though is that the religious experiment are inherently unrepeatable, due to sovereignty of god. That's an enormous distinction. In the scientific framework the underlying axiom is that even purely random events (say photon emission) have perfectly quantifiable probabilities.

Did you follow the instructions?

Here:

His mother said to the servants, "Whatever He says to you, do it." 6 Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of purification of the Jews, containing twenty or thirty gallons apiece. 7 Jesus said to them, "Fill the waterpots with water." And they filled them up to the brim. 8 And He said to them, "Draw some out now, and take it to the master of the feast." And they took it. 9 When the master of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the master of the feast called the bridegroom

Originally Posted by Seraphim

According to the Big Bang, you, me and the shrapnel all came from the hand grenade. And so if we are all flying outwards, how are we going to collide?

They will collide because of gravity

Originally Posted by gugi

I think the distinction is pretty clear - scientists can repeat over and over the observations, and any other scientist can repeat it too.
Now my pitchers are still full of water and I drained the tub already, so so far I'm not impressed. Now I don't have a wife and don't want children, so I cannot really check the repeatability of the proposition you mentioned.
What is troubling with this though is that the religious experiment are inherently unrepeatable, due to sovereignty of god. That's an enormous distinction. In the scientific framework the underlying axiom is that even purely random events (say photon emission) have perfectly quantifiable probabilities.

The piece of the Cross that my wife and I were blessed with resides with a priest who lives in Crete. We have a friend whose family travels to Crete on a regular basis. So, we sent along word of our good news to the priest. Our friend related that he was not surprised one bit. "Oh yes, that happens all the time...."

Hundreds of "you won't be able to have children" couples have had the same experience.

Originally Posted by NYCshaver

They will collide because of gravity

Then if gravity is so strong, why is the universe expanding?

Originally Posted by Seraphim

According to the Big Bang, you, me and the shrapnel all came from the hand grenade.

No. In your version of the analogy, you must, and t consider that the hand grenade (the space that the universe expands in) is 3-D and the shrapnel (you, me, the cookie monster, and the rest of the universe) is 2-D. In that case, every piece of shrapnel is moving away from you (assuming expansion is the only factor in the shrapnel's movement) along your 2-D line of sight. some is moving away faster, but all are moving away. That which is closest to you will be moving away the slowest and has a greater chance of striking you head-on if there are any forces such as gravity acting on you and/or that object

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

No. In your version of the analogy, you must, and t consider that the hand grenade (the space that the universe expands in) is 3-D and the shrapnel (you, me, the cookie monster, and the rest of the universe) is 2-D. In that case, every piece of shrapnel is moving away from you (assuming expansion is the only factor in the shrapnel's movement) along your 2-D line of sight. some is moving away faster, but all are moving away. That which is closest to you will be moving away the slowest and has a greater chance of striking you head-on if there are any forces such as gravity acting on you and/or that object

So, we're talking rear-ending galactic slowpokes here?

So, perhaps in that "ring of dark matter" from X's vid one of the clusters is cooking along at 85mph (far too fast!), and the other cluster is a little old lady cluster poking along at 35 mph with a left turn blinker on......in a Pinto. So, as soon as galaxy #1 merely grazes the rear bumper on Grandma's galaxy #2, the whole shebang goes up in a poof of smoke!