Thread: Dark Matter

gugi you conveniently skipped mentioning why you didn't complete your 40-day fast

Originally Posted by gugi

I did follow them as closely as I could. I couldn't find the mother, the servants, the master of the feast, or Jesus (the book says they died long time ago) so I did the saying, the pouring and the tasting myself.
I don't have the six stone waterpots either (or even if I had I couldn't admit to it or I'll be put to jail for smuggling antiques), so I used a miniature version.
In science you can replace parts with ones with identical function and it all works the same, apparently that doesn't work the same in religion.
I do remember a scientist who was the only one who can create this amazing devices with remarkable properties. He ended up not only being fired, but also stripped from his PhD for falsification.
I haven't seen anything resembling such checks and balances for religious practitioners. As far as I recollect the Bible says that whatever 'miracle' Jesus was able to perform, any of his disciples should be able to reproduce.
So, anybody who considers themselves a disciple of Jesus please do me a favor and give me instructions as simple as his of how to get the water in my pitchers become Montrachet (actually Amarone would do just as well). Without going to Crete, of course. Keep in mind, just like the rest of those feast goers, I could care less about Jesus himself, I'm interested primarily in the results.

I have a telescope (built it myself- 8" Newtonian reflector, you said a miniture version was fine), a computer for running simulations (and browsing SRP...), and a scientific/engineering background. I was not able to confirm, nor duplicate the results of the "dark matter ring".

Although, at one point I thought I had discovered a new spiral galaxy!












It turns out it was simply my thumbprint on the refector (I told you, I built it myself...)




And why aren't you willing to travel to Crete? Sunny, warm, Crete....would that be so hard? Perhaps you could have a stopover in France and pick up some of that Montrachet?

well, i'm just asking for the reproducibility of the supposedly very first 'miracle', which seems also much easier than anything else (no interest in resurrection for now, as i don't care for the preceding crucifiction).
see, the telescope you built may not discover a new galaxy but it should be easy enough to reproduce the technology of galileo and see the four moons of jupiter.
same with computers, you can duplicate the technology an redo the full manhattan project calculations, as well as some of the dark matter ones. Engineering background should be well suited for this, just lookup the equations, and plug the numbers.

Getting to the airport and going through security is too inconvenient, and Jesus didn't really have to go Crete to make wine either (perhaps because they can only make decent wine, it's too hot for really good one).
I just want the stuff to work as easily as it supposedly worked for him.
I have, water, pitchers, I can speak or can ask others to speak for me, and I can get servants too. If you think it's the size of the pitchers, I got that covered as well, my bathtub had between 20 and 30 gallons of water in it, but it didn't turn into wine.

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

gugi you conveniently skipped mentioning why you didn't complete your 40-day fast

yeah i did a 40-day real fast, so fast that it was almost 40 seconds. but god is above such limitations as time and a day is a year and a year is a day... or a week, anything that works.

Originally Posted by gugi

well, i'm just asking for the reproducibility of the supposedly very first 'miracle', which seems also much easier than anything else (no interest in resurrection for now, as i don't care for the preceding crucifiction).
see, the telescope you built may not discover a new galaxy but it should be easy enough to reproduce the technology of galileo and see the four moons of jupiter.
same with computers, you can duplicate the technology an redo the full manhattan project calculations, as well as some of the dark matter ones. Engineering background should be well suited for this, just lookup the equations, and plug the numbers.

Getting to the airport and going through security is too inconvenient, and Jesus didn't really have to go Crete to make wine either (perhaps because they can only make decent wine, it's too hot for really good one).
I just want the stuff to work as easily as it supposedly worked for him.
I have, water, pitchers, I can speak or can ask others to speak for me, and I can get servants too. If you think it's the size of the pitchers, I got that covered as well, my bathtub had between 20 and 30 gallons of water in it, but it didn't turn into wine.

Gugi, you're almost as argumentative and difficult as I am!

You say my equipment wasn't quite up to the task, and as such may only be capable of achieving part of the goal (i.e. seeing Jupiter's moons, which indeed my scope can handle).

Likewise, your experiment is similarly limited. And as such you can only achieve this part:

1 On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Now both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding. 3 And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, "They have no wine." 4 Jesus said to her, "Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come."

You have shown full capacity for running out of wine, and for having Jesus disregard it as not any of His concern!

Hey, this scientific method stuff works great! Full repeatability!



And yes, Greece is not fabulous wine country. The local varietal, retsina is a rather pungent white that I don't care much for...

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Gugi, you're almost as argumentative and difficult as I am!

i actually may be more argumentative and difficult than you

Originally Posted by Seraphim

You have shown full capacity for running out of wine, and for having Jesus disregard it as not any of His concern!

Yeah, but he still gets it done, doesn't he? Plus once it's done for the first time would imply that the time has already come and can be done many times after that. Just like that telescope, 500 years before galileo the time had not come yet, but once he showed everybody how it can be made it just takes a little bit of effort and it can be done over and over.

That's the difficulty I have with the religious experiment so far, you guys keep telling me I'm doing it wrong, but nobody is providing the instructions of how to do it right. It's pretty simple stuff after all, convert drinking water into good wine. I don't want to do it myself so I don't want to find desert and all that, I only want Jesus (or a disciple of his) to just repeat again for me what he allegedly did long time ago.

You are the one who wanted to treat god on the same footing as science, I'm just treating it that way and find much greater difficulty in obtaining results than I do with science. The more I try the more convinced I get it ain't the same

Originally Posted by gugi

i actually may be more argumentative and difficult than you


Yeah, but he still gets it done, doesn't he? Plus once it's done for the first time would imply that the time has already come and can be done many times after that. Just like that telescope, 500 years before galileo the time had not come yet, but once he showed everybody how it can be made it just takes a little bit of effort and it can be done over and over.

You are the one who wanted to treat god on the same footing as science, I'm just treating it that way and find much greater difficulty in obtaining results than I do with science. The more I try the more convinced I get it ain't the same

GIGO is what you're up against, Gugi!

Originally Posted by Seraphim

GIGO is what you're up against, Gugi!

Actually I prefer the mexican coca cola in its recycled bottles. Plus there are these somebody's trash razors I rather enjoy shaving with...
See, now that you brought it up I have to defend my top argumentative position.

Originally Posted by gugi

i actually may be more argumentative and difficult than you


Yeah, but he still gets it done, doesn't he? Plus once it's done for the first time would imply that the time has already come and can be done many times after that. Just like that telescope, 500 years before galileo the time had not come yet, but once he showed everybody how it can be made it just takes a little bit of effort and it can be done over and over.

That's the difficulty I have with the religious experiment so far, you guys keep telling me I'm doing it wrong, but nobody is providing the instructions of how to do it right. It's pretty simple stuff after all, convert drinking water into good wine. I don't want to do it myself so I don't want to find desert and all that, I only want Jesus (or a disciple of his) to just repeat again for me what he allegedly did long time ago.

You are the one who wanted to treat god on the same footing as science, I'm just treating it that way and find much greater difficulty in obtaining results than I do with science. The more I try the more convinced I get it ain't the same

Have you also duplicated the results of the dark matter scientists as well?


Or are you simply taking their word for it?

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Have you also duplicated the results of the dark matter scientists as well?


Or are you simply taking their word for it?

I have duplicated some results (a friend of mine works on that field, so I've looked at some of these calculations, in fact I've done some of these as a homework assignment).
But I don't really care about dark matter as much as I care about wine.
So, got simple instructions for me yet?