Thread: About healthcare.

Originally Posted by CableDawg

If the USPS closed tomorrow, the market would open up and private enterprise would take over. It's going to cost more, but something would take its place.

In my experience in several countries (Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Germany, Japan) that privatized their infrastructure, the following would happen:
-the services cost would gradually increase over a short period of time (up to 4 increases in 12 months, more than doubling the price)
-the quality of the services delivered would drop faster than Wile E. Coyote
-after 12 months they would fire personnel every quarter to keep the stock market analysts happy, therefore reducing the quality of service even more
-creative fees would appear out of the thin blue every so often to jack up the prices even more

The only exception to that is the telecoms market, as the infrastructure development costs can quickly be recouped but sub-letting it to smaller operators. The funny thing is that the United States seemingly have been unable to even do that privatization properly, judging by the broadband availability/costs.

Originally Posted by CableDawg

Why does government suck? Name one government agency you rave about on a daily basis.....or maybe just once in your life. The military doesn't count because that's the only branch of government that's worth a lick.

Why would one of the most expensive parts of the budget "not count"?

Originally Posted by MichaelP

In my experience in several countries (Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Germany, Japan) that privatized their infrastructure, the following would happen:
-the services cost would gradually increase over a short period of time (up to 4 increases in 12 months, more than doubling the price)
-the quality of the services delivered would drop faster than Wile E. Coyote
-after 12 months they would fire personnel every quarter to keep the stock market analysts happy, therefore reducing the quality of service even more
-creative fees would appear out of the thin blue every so often to jack up the prices even more

The only exception to that is the telecoms market, as the infrastructure development costs can quickly be recouped but sub-letting it to smaller operators. The funny thing is that the United States seemingly have been unable to even do that privatization properly, judging by the broadband availability/costs.

Your analysis does not ring true. Here in the US every time the government gets involved you either have an increase in price, a serious drop in quality and/or customer service, or both.

Originally Posted by MichaelP

Why would one of the most expensive parts of the budget "not count"?

Because the United States Armed Forces ROCK! That's the only part of the government that doesn't suck. That's what I'm saying.

Originally Posted by JMS

Your analysis does not ring true. Here in the US every time the government gets involved you either have an increase in price, a serious drop in quality and/or customer service, or both.

Could you cite any recent examples of an industry run entirely by private companies in which the government then decided to compete against?

I'd suggest that the negatives you mentioned are happening to our current health care system right now. Insurance prices are increasing and quality/service is decreasing.

If you're lucky enough to have America's Most Awesome Insurance Plan then I will bring up another topic under health reform; making all plans available to all citizens. Right now there are citizens with few competitive options regarding health care because the private companies have regional monopolies.

I think maybe some of you need to step forward a second and look at a smaller picture. For one thing, nothing lasts for ever. Secondly, there are a lot of assumptions that project decades into the future, I'm not saying it's a bad thing to look forward, I am saying it's an impossible task to guess correctly. Rather than worrying about what might be, worry about what is. From where I'm sitting, there is a problem, and it's very much in a rut.

Now, this is a potential solution, and it could take a lot of worry and stress out of a lot of peoples lives. It probably won't be all things to all men, but nothing is.

Originally Posted by riooso

Health care in America needs fixing! I am not a Republican or a Democrat. Neither party will address tort reform, immigration problems or government waste that is bankrupting our healthcare system. Making everyone join a government health plan is suicide, just ask the president of Canada. That is exactly what will happen if the government "takes care of healthcare". Only the rich and powerful will get the care they need.

Unlike the current situation?

Originally Posted by riooso

There is not one government program that is not a horror to human logic.

In the US perhaps.

Originally Posted by riooso

Another example this last couple of weeks is the NTSB. The oversight agency that is trying to hang Toyota out to dry.

that is their job, after all.

Originally Posted by riooso

The only people who think the government does anything right are the bean counters that come up with the statistics to support their point of view at the cost of the individual. "For the good of many" is spouted by progressives and the like till they are the ones that have to sacrifice....then it is "I am going to Florida to get the surgery done"....TYPICAL!

Or the people who have at least a semi competent government.
Our socialized medicine works very well, for all who participate.
And guess what: it's even cheaper for me than the US system would be. Because there are no hordes of lawyers and insurance companies leeching the system. So as far as I can see, the 'sacrifice' part is non existent.

The only sacrifice I had to make is to not have the freedom to get swindled by lawyers and insurance agents, or to pay more money for less care and less chance of getting denied.

Originally Posted by riooso

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely" is just as true now as it was in 1834 when Lord Acton made the statement. Why do we constantly give power to people who prove time and time again that they screw up everything they do? Blows my mind! We need regulations not ownership by the government!

That is true, which is why any healthy system is a balance of things, and not an absolute.

Originally Posted by MichaelP

In my experience in several countries (Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Germany, Japan) that privatized their infrastructure, the following would happen:
-the services cost would gradually increase over a short period of time (up to 4 increases in 12 months, more than doubling the price)
-the quality of the services delivered would drop faster than Wile E. Coyote
-after 12 months they would fire personnel every quarter to keep the stock market analysts happy, therefore reducing the quality of service even more
-creative fees would appear out of the thin blue every so often to jack up the prices even more

Our national transportation system works just fine, with fairly accurate schedules. Our energy providers however...

The electricity grid and gas delivery system was privatized some years ago. 'Because competition would bring the prices down'. 'for the good of the consumer'... they said...

Prices of gas and electricity have skyrocketed. Because rather than have a delivery system that delivers energy at cost without incentive to cut corners, we now have several who exist to generate profit. And they all come up with pricing schemes that are really convoluted to make it hard to compare prices.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Our national transportation system works just fine, with fairly accurate schedules. Our energy providers however...

The electricity grid and gas delivery system was privatized some years ago. 'Because competition would bring the prices down'. 'for the good of the consumer'... they said...

Prices of gas and electricity have skyrocketed. Because rather than have a delivery system that delivers energy at cost without incentive to cut corners, we now have several who exist to generate profit. And they all come up with pricing schemes that are really convoluted to make it hard to compare prices.

Hope you never privatize your transports system, as happened here. Our national railroad system was divided into smaller private companies. Now trains wont keep their schedules if they keep going at all, ticket prices have gone high, railroad personnel have been fired to save the costs and accidents have increased. And all these companies do is blame each other. Nobody takes responsibility. This system has already became much more expensive to tax payers as government had no choice but to give more money to this bottomless well.
Same happened to our national post. It used to be somewhat cheap, effective and simple system, but now there's no service, not much post offices any more, prices gotten high, many people have lost their jobs and the whole system doesn't even work. Share holders sure get their profits.

Originally Posted by commiecat

If you're lucky enough to have America's Most Awesome Insurance Plan then I will bring up another topic under health reform; making all plans available to all citizens. Right now there are citizens with few competitive options regarding health care because the private companies have regional monopolies.

And why aren't all plans currently available to all citizens?

Isn't it because of the Federal government's involvement prohibiting private insurance businesses from competing across state lines?

Originally Posted by Sailor

I'm not sure if there's any extra value in private system, except in some rare cases. Maybe it is good business for the insurance companies.

Bingo. That is a major reason why, in health-care policy, we are fifty years behind the rest of the developed world, and counting.

~Rich