Thread: About healthcare.

Originally Posted by PA23-250

Not a myth at all--I used to be a biochemist.

Bio-what now?

All's I know is that my body seems to like whatever I put into it. Sure, I may have a heart attack when I enter my thirties or forties, but heck - I've got free health care to back me up if that day ever comes!

Originally Posted by PA23-250

Not a myth at all--I used to be a biochemist. For starters, the glycemic index of what you're eating will drastically affect your body's insulin response, which over time can lead to insulin resistance
& possibly even type 2 diabetes... HFCS (which is in bloody near everything these days thanks to corn subsidies) has not only very high GI (I forget what the number is), but containing so much fructose, it really puts a nice strain on your liver. Very different from complex grains which take much longer to break down (much lower GI) and in many cases are far nutritionally superior (vitamin, mineral content, etc.)

Then we have pesticide residues (including in some cases organophosphates), preservatives of various kinds--some nicer than others, antibiotics fed to CAFO animals, RBST (MOL IGF-1) in milk. Many seeds (various crops) are Roundup-Ready, meaning they can be drenched in the stuff & survive--basically leaving weed-killer still remaining on the final product. Lots of these goodies bioaccumulate to some degree, and some are quite potent xenoestrogens. Unfermented soy is a major one. (Fermentation denatures the estrogens--soy sauce for example is fine. ) Soy isoflavones (and others) not only mimic estrogens (there are several), but also stimulate cytochrome P-450 aromatase, which converts androgens (testosterone et al.) into estrogens. In small doses, it serves a purpose (hormonal regulation), but overstimulated as it is by todays "food" choices...
Some girls are entering puberty as early as 8, and some boys not until 15 or later. Obviously, not all of this is due to soy consumption, but rather everything on this quick list.

Just a quick overview of some of the goodies you might be eating.

As to point #1 in your response, see my point about quantity.

As to point #2 in your response, I suppose you have a good point. All food substances today are probably contaminated, at least to some degree, by the ubiquitous use of pesticides and other toxic substances world wide. Some foods have naturally occurring toxic, or other potentially "harmful" substances, as you pointed out with soy. Once again though, our bodies will excrete or metabolize many of those toxins. And as I pointed out above, variety - will reduce concentrated amounts of any single contaminant. But what can one do? Stop eating?

Originally Posted by honedright

As to point #1 in your response, see my point about quantity.

As to point #2 in your response, I suppose you have a good point. All food substances today are probably contaminated, at least to some degree, by the ubiquitous use of pesticides and other toxic substances world wide. Some foods have naturally occurring substances, as you pointed out with soy. Once again though, our bodies will excrete or metabolize many of those toxins. And as I pointed out above, variety - will reduce concentrated amounts of any single contaminant. But what can one do? Stop eating?

Wait, you were serious when you said that unhealthy food was a myth? There is no hierarchy of food quality and diet that can be drawn in relation to overall health?

Variety and quantity are relative terms. You can eat a proper amount of various crappy foods and I'd wager that it will affect your health.

This is a very complex subject with all kinds of variables.

Food is often priced so popular (unhealthy) stuff is way more expensive than healthier stuff which isn't so popular because that's how they make their money. Also things are often times labeled to try and trick you into making bad choices at the supermarket or restaurant. Also marketing affects this also.When I go to the supermarket a 20oz bottle of soda is the same price as a 1 liter bottle and only pennies less than a 2liter bottle. They now have soda vending machines that automatically raise the price as the outside temperature goes up.

I think there are plenty of unheathy choices you can make. You can eat very fatty meat and eat peanut butter or consume alot of olive oil. Its all fat but the effects on your body are radically different. Much of the bad stuff isn't just processed by the body but much is retained by the Liver which filters the blood.

What about all these drugs that are flushed down the toilet of expelled by people and go back into the drinking water?

In the end its all relative anyway. If you have good genes nothing you eat or drink or smoke will kill you and you'll live to 100. Bad genes? Your in big trouble.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

This is a very complex subject with all kinds of variables.

Food is often priced so popular (unhealthy) stuff is way more expensive than healthier stuff which isn't so popular because that's how they make their money.

I haven't found this to be the case in Atlanta. Organic veggies or products and anything in a health food store is vastly more expensive than frozen pizza, chips, and ice cream.

So much so, that the wife and I planted a garden last year.

-Rob

Originally Posted by commiecat

Wait, you were serious when you said that unhealthy food was a myth? There is no hierarchy of food quality and diet that can be drawn in relation to overall health?

Variety and quantity are relative terms. You can eat a proper amount of various crappy foods and I'd wager that it will affect your health.

Maybe I should have added frequency as a part of quantity.

As far as hierarchy of food quality - I think that is more a buying into marketing hype than anything else ("organic" my @$$). Take a cheese burger for instance - once broken down by digestion there's: protein (high quality protein BTW), carbohydrate (eventually glucose), fat (maybe a lot in this case, but unless you have some type of lipid metabolism problem, or other health problem with fats, so what? Fat, even saturated fat, is an essential nutrient - almost forgot the un-saturated fats from the sesame seeds in the bun!), fiber and phyto-nutrients from the veggies (lettuce, pickle, tomato, onion) in the sandwich.... As far as your body is concerned - all good stuff. And your body couldn't care less if it got all of that from a "Quarter Pounder" or from a tofu and bean sprout casserole.

Really, I think there are no "crappy foods" but more likely crappy life-styles. Eating only Snickers bars and cheese burgers would supply one with all essential nutrients for life (with the addition of some source of water). Those foods in and of themselves are not "crappy", but the choice to eat only those foods might be a crappy choice (that is where variety comes in). Although, given that one person should be lucky enough to have a "good set of genes," an exclusive candy bar/ cheese burger diet might be just fine, for them. Now add in all the other variables of life-style (exercise or lack thereof, environmental exposures, mental health, genetics, etc.) and it becomes a lot more complicated. Oh, did I mention genetics?

And though some may think that this discussion has gone off topic ("About Health Care") I think it is fundamentally on topic.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

This is a very complex subject with all kinds of variables.

Food is often priced so popular (unhealthy) stuff is way more expensive than healthier stuff which isn't so popular because that's how they make their money. Also things are often times labeled to try and trick you into making bad choices at the supermarket or restaurant. Also marketing affects this also.When I go to the supermarket a 20oz bottle of soda is the same price as a 1 liter bottle and only pennies less than a 2liter bottle. They now have soda vending machines that automatically raise the price as the outside temperature goes up.

I think there are plenty of unheathy choices you can make. You can eat very fatty meat and eat peanut butter or consume alot of olive oil. Its all fat but the effects on your body are radically different. Much of the bad stuff isn't just processed by the body but much is retained by the Liver which filters the blood.

What about all these drugs that are flushed down the toilet of expelled by people and go back into the drinking water?

In the end its all relative anyway. If you have good genes nothing you eat or drink or smoke will kill you and you'll live to 100. Bad genes? Your in big trouble.

Very true.

Getting off-topic from health care, but it's a good discussion so I'll continue.

I just want to clarify: I fully agree that it's relatively affordable for people to eat healthy (or even healthier). Much like shaving, the majority of the population wants things cheap and fast and when you're dealing with food, that's usually the least-healthy option. I don't think anybody has to eat fast food, but it's a choice they make.

I'm just arguing on the side of better food being generally more expensive, and maybe I was too focused on the meat industry. Look at the price of any industrial poultry, beef or dairy products and compare them per pound/ounce to local meat that is grass-fed and/or organic.

That's awesome about your garden, sicboater. We don't have a garden (just a few herbs) but we're fortunate in that we have lots of local options around here; an awesome farmer's market and also a grocery store which carries almost everything from Florida farmers.

Originally Posted by honedright

As far as hierarchy of food quality - I think that is more a buying into marketing hype than anything else ("organic" my @$$). Take a cheese burger for instance - once broken down by digestion there's: protein (high quality protein BTW), carbohydrate (eventually glucose), fat (maybe a lot in this case, but unless you have some type of lipid metabolism problem, or other health problem with fats, so what? Fat, even saturated fat, is an essential nutrient - almost forgot the un-saturated fats from the sesame seeds in the bun!), fiber and phyto-nutrients from the veggies (lettuce, pickle, tomato, onion) in the sandwich.... As far as your body is concerned - all good stuff. And your body couldn't care less if it got all of that from a "Quarter Pounder" or from a tofu and bean sprout casserole.

You mention nothing of ratios.

I watched a tiny bit of one of those fat fighting shows once. A woman was trying to teach these kids why junk food was not the best option. She said something along the lines of

'you never see people pig out on healthy food, but you can sit down an eat crisps for an hour and not feel at all full. That's because healthy food gives the body what it wants, and once it's got it, it's happy. Junk food just provides calories.'

It was better than that, but I still remember it and I still think it's an excellent point. I do think there is food that is ultimately poor for you, and food that is ultimately good. There are probably meals out that you could eat for breakfast lunch and dinner every day of your life and be healthy as a horse, but there are certainly foods that would kill you in a surprisingly short time if you tried to do the same.

I enjoy a big mac meal, every now and then, I can get cheap burger king at work - and occasionally I have one - I regret it most times. I FEEL worse off for it.

Originally Posted by commiecat

Not to get too off-topic but, seriously? You'd argue that junk food isn't less expensive than good, healthy food?

The majority of our food supply has become industrialized, and the foods produced by these companies are almost always less expensive (and more readily-available) than local vendors -- especially when it comes to meat.

Junk fast food is cheaper than healthy fast food.

If you shop with care, select in season products, plan
healthy balanced meals and cook for your family it is
possible to eat very well and a lot cheaper than takeout.

Heck someone on this list posted pictures of his hand made
pizza. I know that I can make scratch dough, and make
a fine pie for a lot less than the shop does. It does take
time and planning.