Thread: Chubby Monitors

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Huh?

If you had to have Open Heart Surgery like I did 12 years ago to correct a congenital defect and you had no health insurance and you got a bill in the mail for around 125K in present numbers probably way over 200K how would you feel about health insurance then? Happily I have good health insurance.

Of course I'd be thankful that I'd had the intelligence and foresight to provide myself with good health insurance - especially in the case of knowing that I had a congenital defect that would most likely require surgical correction in the future.

Fortunately for you, your surgery was performed under the current system (I'm assuming here in the US) via private or employer sponsored health insurance. Imagine if you'd had to have your surgery under a nationally managed system like this: Operating theatres shut to save cash as thousands wait for surgery - National - www.smh.com.au

or this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...ealth.politics

How would you feel about national health insurance then? Happily we still have private insurance.

Yes your correct a nationally managed healthcare system would be a nightmare. Why just ask all those people who are on medicare and medicaid and most will tell you how they hate it.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Yes your correct a nationally managed healthcare system would be a nightmare. Why just ask all those people who are on medicare and medicaid and most will tell you how they hate it.

Lets not forget the VA:The Horror Of Government Run Veteran Health Care

Originally Posted by JMS

Lets not forget the VA:The Horror Of Government Run Veteran Health Care

is this credible at all? that's not from foxnews.

in any case this is pure propaganda. unless you can compare with a same cost private solution you cannot claim the problem is government mismanagement.
it is equally likely that the government severely overwhelmed the system by starting wars without having the required resources.
that's still a government problem, but of a very different nature.

what happened to looking for the truth? or the koolaid is gotten so cheap that it's impossible to resist.

Originally Posted by gugi

is this credible at all? that's not from foxnews.

in any case this is pure propaganda. unless you can compare with a same cost private solution you cannot claim the problem is government mismanagement.
it is equally likely that the government severely overwhelmed the system by starting wars without having the required resources.
that's still a government problem, but of a very different nature.

what happened to looking for the truth? or the koolaid is gotten so cheap that it's impossible to resist.

The VA has always been sub par compared with private medicine as far back as I can remember gugi. Not only have I been a civilian but I was once military also.

I think you may be forgetting that private ventures and government programs are very good at very different things.
A government program will never be as efficient as business, but there is a very good reason why you don't have private justice for example. Same with the healthcare for veterans.

Economically it's actually pretty simple. It all boils down what is your socioeconomic level. If you're reasonably above median you will be better off with a private system. If you are not you'll fare much better under a government system. And if you support the opposite of what is economically beneficial for you... well then you can figure it out.... but you may feel pretty bad if you do.

Originally Posted by gugi

I think you may be forgetting that private ventures and government programs are very good at very different things.
A government program will never be as efficient as business, but there is a very good reason why you don't have private justice for example. Same with the healthcare for veterans.

Economically it's actually pretty simple. It all boils down what is your socioeconomic level. If you're reasonably above median you will be better off with a private system. If you are not you'll fare much better under a government system. And if you support the opposite of what is economically beneficial for you... well then you can figure it out.... but you may feel pretty bad if you do.

Interesting fellow you are Ivan. The beautiful thing about the American system is that it prods you to move to a higher economic level unlike government systems which only keep you uncomfortably comfortable in the hell of their magnanimity of others money earned by others hard labor that will support those who have no work ethic.
Just as a reminder gugi, I worked up from dirt poor to relatively well off. I wouldn't say I was rich but I can afford some of the finer things due to my hard work. Just so you understand gugi I have seen first hand both sides of this argument.

Originally Posted by JMS

Interesting fellow you are Ivan. The beautiful thing about the American system is that it prods you to move to a higher economic level unlike government systems which only keep you uncomfortably comfortable in the hell of their magnanimity of others money earned by others hard labor that will support those who have no work ethic.
Just as a reminder gugi, I worked up from dirt poor to relatively well off. I wouldn't say I was rich but I can afford some of the finer things due to my hard work. Just so you understand gugi I have seen first hand both sides of this argument.

What's the difference between the "American system" and the "government system"? So corporations run by appointees are American but our elected representative government is...not?

The good ol' "if you can't afford it you're a lazy bum". Yeah, we're better off with our current system -- especially us above-average people. We're so well off, as a matter of fact, that our health care system is the model in which all other industrialized nations try to mimic. There have been rallies all over Europe with the message "We want to pay more for less like the USA!" Private corporations will be more in tuned to what our needs are instead of focused on ridiculous things like making money, and they're always better with less competition. And you know that if we go with this socialist system that all of the doctors and people who actually take care of you will be replaced by government officials who will inevitably screw things up.

There are plenty of horror stories from people with private insurance too. I know, I used to work for HMOs and I was looked at by others like a used car salesman. Also, Medicare and Tricare are administered by private sector companies...

As for not needing some kind of insurance, take a look at life expectancy in the US before, during and after the 1940s - when people began getting insurance or government sponsored health care.

I think this comes down to whether or not we view access to health care as a right. We've been saying "no", but then behaving somewhat like it is -Medicaid, Medicare, not allowing hospitals to turn people away from ERs, etc. If we're going to do these things, we have to make care accessible and affordable for everyone - including the middle class. Unless we're ready to tell people, "sorry, you can't afford this, so you're going to die", (and I don't think we are) then we need government involvement.

Jordan

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