Thread: Are We Incrementally Losing Our Freedom?

Neat video. I suggest you take a look, Wildtim. You have the freedom to do so.

Myself, I wont watch a vid made by that fraud.

But on the subject at hand....

Healthcare is for profit. if you cant afford it, you dont have it.

So now we have a healthcare law. Pay attention here people

ITS STILL FOR PROFIT!

The governments big smile and point they have been proud of has stemmed from "and this bill will reduce the deficit by billions of dollars over the next 10 years" (this is paraphrasing as they keep changing the numbers)

How can it lower the deficit? why, by making more than its spending!

And the fact that the penalties for NOT being insured, are open ended. There is no difinitive punishments.
It is enirely within reason and possibility that a person who fails to purchase insurance can lose everything they own.
A large fine added to your tax bill will end up as a lien. If you were struggling before (hence why you couldnt pay for insurance) will it be any easier to pay your suddenly increased taxes?
And since your credit card payments will be at max rates (since your credit score reflects your ability to repay) its just going to be harder.

Groups of people (business and govt both) buy insurance at cheaper rates than an individual can. My rates were 400 a month for just myself.
Under the new plan, I will be paying more like 600 a month.
You have the buying power of the entire United States of America, and my rates go UP?!?
As for other countries with their plans, while you can go into any emergancy room, if you need specialized care, you can die waiting to see a specialist. I know people that had to wait 4 months to see a cancer specialist. 6 months to see a surgeon.

And the very fact that anyone, anywhere, at any time, finds it acceptable that the governement is taking 45% of thier hard earned income is just frightnening to me.
It shouldnt be ok there, it shouldnt be ok here.

I keep seeing pages from the book Animal Farm in my head. I wonder what thats all about? Hmmmmmm....

So, in answer to the original post....Hells yes, I dont think we have much "rights" left!

How is he a fraud?

Sorry Phil,
But that's really not a discussion for these boards.

Can anyone who presently bemoans the "loss" of their "freedom" as a result of this altogether mild attempt at correcting some of the more gross excesses of the for-profit healthcare industry please explain to me just which "freedoms" they think they've "lost?"

I would sincerely appreciate it, since, while I keep hearing the claim, I keep NOT hearing any specifics.

Has freedom of speech been impinged? The current plague of violent, eliminationist, right-wing rhetoric and overt violence seems to indicate otherwise.

Has freedom of religion been impinged? The din coming from some pulpits seems to indcate otherwise.

Has the freedom of the press been impinged? Save for the fact that the "press" is now owned by a small cadre of right-leaning corporations, the presence of masssive right-wing reportage about their freedoms being "lost" seems to indicate otherwise.

Has the right to keep and bear arms so as to be a part of a well-regulated militia been impinged? The massive increase in gun sales in the last year seems to indicate otherwise.

Has the freedom to contract been impinged? Even with the new law, the only place you can get insurance is still in the for-profit "free" market and the fact that the ForProfit insurance companies are still selling policies (except to the people they dump) seems to indicate otherwise.

Has the Right Against Self-Incrimination been impinged? The fact that officers are still reading rights to arrestees seems to indicate otherwise.

Has the right to a speedy trial been impinged? With the exception of certain Muslims, the fact that we hold criminal trials every day seems to indicate otherwise.

Has the right to a jury trial been impinged? Again, with the exception of those afore-mentioned Muslims, the fact that we're empaneling juries every day seems to indicate otherwise.

Has the right to be secure in one's person, papers and effects been impinged? With the exception that the last shredded tatters of the Fourth Amendment were taken out behind the barn and bludgeoned to death nine years ago (and having NOTHING to do with "healthcare reform;" and about which the right-wing remains silent and will continue to remain silent until they can find a way to blame that brown man who's in OUR WHITE House for it), the facts seem to indicate otherwise.

Has Habeas Corpus been impinged? Well, yes, it has, but that happened during the last administration and had NOTHING to do with the modest attempt to reign-in predatory corporate health insurer practices. Still, you'll never hear any of the current crop of bemoaners talking about that. They were silent as the grave when it happened, and they'll remain silent yet, unless they can figure out a way to blame that brown man in OUR WHITE House for it.

While this list of rights is not exhaustive, it is fairly comprehensive.

Just what "Freedom" is it that Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, John Boehner et al. are screaming about that's been lost? Did our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan suddenly throw down their arms, surrender and start bowing and scraping in the direction of Makkah when word got out that the bill's law now? Did I miss something?

I'm asking sincerely. It's one thing to say you've lost something (sorta like saying "the dog ate my homework") but it's entirely ANOTHER thing to prove it.

I've been waiting for some sort of proof for months now, but while there's been an embarrassment of riches of squealing, bellowing and hollering, actual proof has been as rare as hen's teeth.

Originally Posted by BobKincaid

Has the right to be secure in one's person, papers and effects been impinged? With the exception that the last shredded tatters of the Fourth Amendment were taken out behind the barn and bludgeoned to death nine years ago (and having NOTHING to do with "healthcare reform;" and about which the right-wing remains silent and will continue to remain silent until they can find a way to blame that brown man who's in OUR WHITE House for it), the facts seem to indicate otherwise.

What is the status regarding rumors that the IRS will have access to confidential medical records?

Originally Posted by honedright

What is the status regarding rumors that the IRS will have access to confidential medical records?

Exactly that: a rumor, that has no been thoroughly denied, debunked and discredited as pure hyperbole. Notwithstanding that, it was, of course, bruited as Gospel Truth by Fox.

IRS Commisioner Shulman said the following on Thursday, under oath, before the Congress: "There are not going to be any discussions about health coverage with an IRS employee."

On Edit: the security of one's healthcare records, per se, was more or less done away with not by this healthcare law, but by the Patriot Act, wherein broad latitude of access was given to virtually any agency claiming "national security." Curiously, the "patriots" weren't the least but perturbed at the time. That list didn't include the IRS, and still doesn't, and the IRS isn't included in the healthcare law.

http://www.isil.org/resources/philos...ty-english.swf

Originally Posted by AnarchoPhil

http://www.isil.org/resources/philos...ty-english.swf

Well, I certainly just got deprived of some of my life and liberty by THAT!

Nothing like wasting a few minutes of precious, finite life on Randianism. Warn a guy next time, would ya?