Thread: Are We Incrementally Losing Our Freedom?

how is that dude? did you watch it at all? that video breaks down the principal of self ownership.

Once again, without getting into a for/against health care...liberal/conservative argument which, is pointless to any of the actual issues discussed, one of my thoughts when I started this thread was if it had occurred to anyone a possibility that these issues, (Health Care...Cap & Trade/environment...etc.), were specifically chosen because at face value...they address issues that most would agree with in their broad and general concept, and therefore the perfect vehicle for tucking away sections of law that had little to do with health care, (in this example), but were more of a social restructing? Hmmm

Now that it is passed, we are starting to hear a few things from it's advocates that we haven't heard before.

After the Senate passed a "fix-it" bill Thursday to make changes to the new health care law, Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., chairman of the influential Finance Committee, said the overhaul was an "income shift" to help the poor.

This could mean a lot of things, but, doesn't it sound a little like our representatives sitting on high and deciding where to cut the pie we baked. If you want to cheer for the poor as compared to the visual aid of the extremely rich, that is a little too easy, as this legislation is more directed to the average guy. Now, I'm not saying good...bad or anything else, but, does this give anyone pause as to just what might be tucked away in 2700 pages of ??? and just how this might affect you? What do you think?

Regarding the pie; IMHO:
Supply side tax cuts...
Make the pie MUCH bigger.

Originally Posted by AnarchoPhil

how is that dude? did you watch it at all? that video breaks down the principal of self ownership.

Yes, much to my sad, chagrined dismay, I actually DID waste my time watching the whole thing.

Why must the Randians propertize EVERYTHING? To claim "self-ownership" is to claim explicitly that self is property. To claim that self is property admits that others may own self-property, as well, which, in turn, implies some sickening level of justification of slavery.

Only the Randians would so cheapen human existence as to make it property, chattel, the suitable subject of the base business of marketplace haggling and scrabbling over phony concepts of material value as applied to human dignity. I simply cannot, and will not, so debase human life.

its not looking good right now for middle america.......i think it all started when they started giving housing loans to people they knew there was no possible way for them to pay that back....then the baks were about to fail so they spent billions on a bail out. i honestly thingk that they should of let the banks start to fail they would have re organized within themselves and came back stronger. but its not just that what about that old thief that stole millions then got caught and commited suicide when he knew he was caught.. i hope they took every asset and liquidated it and divy it up to the people he stole from. but i know thats not going to happen...now this bill and a fixx it bill which probably isnt fixing anything but just lining someone in washingtons pockets
sorry about my luck....i just hope the madness ends soon....to bad we cant fire everyone and find some people that are not corrupted....specifically people from the middle class that could better represent the population because most of the population is middle class

Originally Posted by BobKincaid

Yes, much to my sad, chagrined dismay, I actually DID waste my time watching the whole thing.

Why must the Randians propertize EVERYTHING? To claim "self-ownership" is to claim explicitly that self is property. To claim that self is property admits that others may own self-property, as well, which, in turn, implies some sickening level of justification of slavery.

Only the Randians would so cheapen human existence as to make it property, chattel, the suitable subject of the base business of marketplace haggling and scrabbling over phony concepts of material value as applied to human dignity. I simply cannot, and will not, so debase human life.

hahaha

You see something that states that property rights are essential to liberty and you automatically make the assumption that it is objectivism? Well, friend, it's not. The principal of self ownership is not based in objectivism it is based on logic and reason (and some would say as I do, in Christianity). There is no reasonable argument against stating that you own yourself. A person that denies self ownership must see themselves as part of a collective... maybe a collective such as the american society? If so, you should have no problems with HCR as it is for the good of the american society and being that you have no decisions to make on your own (because you don't own yourself) but those that benefit the collective, then I congratulate you on moving your collective forward with the passing of HCR but please, there are individuals around.

I own myself.
But, I am willing to sell for the right price.

HNSB..........i have an e-bay and pay pal account can i be your manager..ill only you tax you 2.5%

Originally Posted by hardblues

Now that it is passed, we are starting to hear a few things from it's advocates that we haven't heard before.

After the Senate passed a "fix-it" bill Thursday to make changes to the new health care law, Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., chairman of the influential Finance Committee, said the overhaul was an "income shift" to help the poor.

This could mean a lot of things, but, doesn't it sound a little like our representatives sitting on high and deciding where to cut the pie we baked. If you want to cheer for the poor as compared to the visual aid of the extremely rich, that is a little too easy, as this legislation is more directed to the average guy. Now, I'm not saying good...bad or anything else, but, does this give anyone pause as to just what might be tucked away in 2700 pages of ??? and just how this might affect you? What do you think?

Some say that HCR is good for America, and it could well be....but in consideration of the above, the HC bill as written might not necessarily be good for America...in other words...other than being titled HCR...what exactly is in those 2700 pages...what the hell did Baucus mean??

What did he say?