Thread: Why is this Okay?

Originally Posted by smokelaw1

Interesting. So, should there be protected classes at all? Should empoyemnt discrimination based on race be illegal in the first place?

If yes, then those who were (by the existance of the law above) disenfranchised by this discrimination ought not be able to take any steps to help themsleves? The simple legally enforced "equality" should be good enough for them, and they should be happy to be legally "equal" while in reality, still living in a society where there is still inequality based on race?

If a site gave information giving Whites the best places to wrok for whites, that's completely legal, is it not? If those places then discrinimated based on race, THAT would be illegal. (opr are we talking moral here? right/wrong? That's a whole different argument....but one I'm guessing we'll still disagree on)

Who said blacks are discriminating here, by offering information to others? Again, if a site called white-4-hire wanted to give links to great low-diversity workplaces, there would be no (legal) problem with it. There is a report on that site discussing workplaces that have succeeded in creating a culture of diversity. This seems like valuable information for an African-American job seeker, doesn't it? Does supplying him or her with this information seem discriminaroty to you? Finding companies that are NOT discriminating?

I'm honestly trrying to understand what your problem with this site is.

Race should not even be an issue when hiring someone. there should be no "race" check box on a application, and there should not be a site which only supports one race in their job search. This is discrimination. Race is a protected class when it comes to civil rights, (as it should be). This does not mean that some races get preferential treatment. It means that race should not even be an issue.

it seems to me that your position is that discrimination is bad. HOWEVER, conspiracy to commit discrimination is perfectly okay, so long as they are only providing information on those employers willing to discriminate against the non-black races. how about a site that provides information for whites about employers that are only willing to hire whites? Is that okay?

Originally Posted by mhailey

it seems to me that your position is that discrimination is bad. HOWEVER, conspiracy to commit discrimination is perfectly okay, so long as they are only providing information on those employers willing to discriminate against the non-black races. how about a site that provides information for wites about employers that are only willing to hire whites? Is that okay?

I agree with (just about) everything you said int the first paragraph. However, race is (and should be) one part of creating a diverse workplace. Actively seeking to hire from a wide range of society is a good thing, in my opinion. Actively breaking the old white boys club is a good thing. Providing info about employers that do so is not discrimination.
Promoting diversity is not, IMHO, discrimination. I hope and believe that within a few generations, it will not be necessary for large corporations to have a diversity task-force, and a diversity comittee, a latino/a employee comittee, and a GLBT support group. Everyone will be represetned in the workforce by a roughly corresponding percentage tot he surrounding pool of applicants, and you and I can go back to arguing over the important stuff, like wether newly produced stainless steel hollow ground razors can EVER shave as well as my big old wedges. (they can not, don't even try)


As for your hypothetical site, it would be OK legally, yes, but ethically and morally, no. The site in question (among other things) discusses employment issues germiane to the African American candidate. This includes firms (and fields) that seem to be important to that community (or interesting in diversity of their workforce).

For those interested in both sides of the argument here are some interesting links: Answering the Critics - Countering Arguments

BalancedPolitics.org - Affirmative Action (Pros & Cons, Arguments For and Against)

Ethics of Affirmative Action: Evaluating Arguments Against

For what may be a different perspective for some of us check out an article found at: Dr Boyce: Three Dumb Things about "Reverse Discrimination" - BV Black Spin

Here is a taste:

Terms like "reverse discrimination" are regularly used to validate arguments against racial progress, and most Americans simply do not understand how racism works in America. The rest of us simply don't care. Here are some quick thoughts on the issue to help us make sense of it all.
1) The term "reverse discrimination" is silly and misguided: Terms like this were designed by those who feel an entitlement to a certain degree of power in our society in order to alleviate them of the guilt of what they've done to every black man, woman and child for the past 400 years. Stop using this term, it makes you look ridiculous. It's a lot like the fat kid telling the anorexic one that he discriminated against him by taking the last cookie.

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

Thank you, I was so afraid that I would open this up and find a picture of the Klan!

Wouldn't do that, but it did cross my mind, haha.

*****

HEY - go click the Resume tab on the website.

"Post Your Resume" - white lady pouring endless cups of coffee!

"Get Job Recommendations" - black guy showing a white guy the road to success!

"Be Found By Employers" - your resume going straight to the thoughtful white guy!

"Apply to Jobs Faster" - handing a white guy the baton, and he's off!

Originally Posted by mhailey

being a user of a straight razor is not a protected class for the purposes of anti-discrimination. Race is a protected class when it comes to discrimination. When providing services to the general pubilc, you cannot discriminate based upon race. PERIOD. If I own a hot dog stand, I cannot only serve whites. I have to serve every race. If I own a dance hall I cannot keep out certain races, I have to let every race in. you can discriminate agains people based upon education, skill set, even for the fact that they use a straight razor to shave. You cannot discriminate agains someone based upon race, and that does not exclude whites.

This site is the same thing as having a hot dog stand, and only serving blacks. Except, instead of selling hot dogs, they are selling information regaridng jobs.

You're not getting my point. Do you get blocked from accessing or registering on the site? They aren't denying you service. There's nothing wrong with creating a group, organization, or web site to benefit a minority of people, whether it's on the grounds of a hobby, gender or race.

Furthermore this is just a branch of Career Builder who services all races equally. For all you know the site could just be a filter of their master database based on race.

Originally Posted by mhailey

Race should not even be an issue when hiring someone. there should be no "race" check box on a application, and there should not be a site which only supports one race in their job search. This is discrimination. Race is a protected class when it comes to civil rights, (as it should be). This does not mean that some races get preferential treatment. It means that race should not even be an issue.

Matt,
You're joking right? You don't really think the website BlackCareers.com is a business that does any hiring of only black people do you? It seems to me obvious that this website has been put together to help blacks find good jobs. What can possibly be wrong with that? Do you also have an issue with organizations that help women find jobs, or veterans find jobs? What the hell do you care? If it ain't hurting you, why don't you mind your own business? I am sure you understand Blacks have always been "last hired and first fired". I also want to point out while the national unemployment rate hovers just below 10%, it's double that in the black community. So, a concentrated effort to focus on this group is understandable in my mind.

Brad

Originally Posted by billyjeff2

The answer to the OP would require one to be cognizant of certain historical facts, the recitation of which would require far more space than this forum allows, and which would also take a fair amount of time to cover. Once you are aware and mindful of the history that has brought us to this particular point in terms of why there are minorities who feel compelled to band together in certain instances, then you'll understand why.
Kinda like why Italian restaurants seem to only serve Italian food, or something like that...

Cliffs:

Its racist but that's OK because they were discriminated against years ago. Poor them, they can have all the advantages they want.

Originally Posted by Wildtim

Cliffs:

Its racist but that's OK because they were discriminated against years ago. Poor them, they can have all the advantages they want.

Uhmm..not exactly.
And your reply is quite revealing in terms of the gloss you put on it.
I guess you just want your country back, don't you?

Originally Posted by icedog

Matt,
You're joking right? You don't really think the website BlackCareers.com is a business that does any hiring of only black people do you? It seems to me obvious that this website has been put together to help blacks find good jobs. What can possibly be wrong with that? Do you also have an issue with organizations that help women find jobs, or veterans find jobs? What the hell do you care? If it ain't hurting you, why don't you mind your own business? I am sure you understand Blacks have always been "last hired and first fired". I also want to point out while the national unemployment rate hovers just below 10%, it's double that in the black community. So, a concentrated effort to focus on this group is understandable in my mind.

Brad

So it woudl be perfectly acceptable to you for white people to start a white jobs website so that they can band together and make sure that they are taken care of? White jobs for white people? Who said its not hurting me? I was placed on the wait list for my top choice for law school, but did not get in. However two black people, with lower LSAT scores and lower GPA's than me were accepted to meet their quota. That was complete BS. They received preferential treatment because of their race, and I was discrminated against because of mine. Discrimination is discrmination. PERIOD. RACE SHOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE. PERIOD. the most qualified candiate for the position. PERIOD. If you feel that it is okay to provide services to individuals of only one race, while excluding other races, then you should have no problem with white only restaurants, white only movie theaters, and white only drinking fountains. Me, i have huge issues with these things. It seems to me that you only have issues when it is the white person that is doing the excluding. However, if the white person is excluded, the everything is hunkydory, and the persons of the other races are simply trying to "level the playing field." You want a level playing field, keep race completely out of it.

Originally Posted by commiecat

You're not getting my point. Do you get blocked from accessing or registering on the site? They aren't denying you service. There's nothing wrong with creating a group, organization, or web site to benefit a minority of people, whether it's on the grounds of a hobby, gender or race.

Furthermore this is just a branch of Career Builder who services all races equally. For all you know the site could just be a filter of their master database based on race.

Yes there is issues with what you say. If you have headhunter that advertises his/her services as "the premier job placement services for caucasins" it is illegal. Nothing in the headhunter's website or advertisements state that "non-caucasians need not apply." However, the mere fact that he/she is "the premier job placement services for caucasians" makes it known that all other races need not apply. Same with this website. Answer this, would you be okay with "whitejobs.com" "the premier job placement service for caucasians." Yes or no, would you find that offensive?