? FROM THE ' WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE ' THREAD

[JimmyHAD]

further to that, my understanding is than an athiest has no belief in what cannot be seen. No God(s), psychics, UFOs etc

I don't think that you can generalize with any accuracy on what an atheist believes beyond their unbelief in a supreme being. My mother, grandfather, sister and one of my two fathers were atheists. I was raised an atheist and remained so until my early teens when I became an agnostic. No atheists in foxholes type of thing. In my thirties I became a believer and have vacillated between agnosticism and belief since.

Not without investigation but with a great deal of research and study. I am the only one of the fore mentioned family members who came to believe. My sister is 70 and still an atheist. The other family members went to their grave unbelievers. At present I am a believer for whatever that is worth.

[Desdinova]

I don't think that you can generalize with any accuracy on what an atheist believes beyond their unbelief in a supreme being.

\I suppose you are correct ina way. We are just debating what the proper definition of an athiest is.

[Pete_S]

I don't think it would be inaccurate to say most atheists or agnostics don't believe in supernatural phenomena, certainly if it was something like ghosts or having to do with some entity thats "beyond the grave"-or part of a religious system, like demons or angels, for example. Belief in something like that would make them something other than an athiest.

But some might believe in ESP or that UFOs have visited earth, things that might be scientifically possible, albeit unlikely.

[gssixgun]

Your adding things to the definition of Athiest...

The thing is, we have a problem with the Cognitive part of the definition of a "god"

Many believe in an afterlife, or reincarnation, or even a Cosmic force, but none believe that it is a thinking being that is responsible...

It is just that slight difference that makes us Atheists, we don't believe in ANY deity but anything else is still possible..

Of course each person has their own belief system, and I am by all means not saying that all Atheists believe in an afterlife, but we can, and still be an Athiest...

An Agnostic has more of the "it can't be proved therefore it doesn't exist" attitude and again that varies, by each individual...I know Agnostics that believe there is a god but they don't like any of the definitions of that god... so they fall more in the "You can't understand nor define" category

[jcd]

There is a real problem with the word "Atheism". Dictionaries give two definitions which are very different.

1. the doctrine or belief that there is no god.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

In my view, these two definitions make the word "atheist" useless; to answer a simple question like "Are you an atheist?", requires a counter question: "What do you mean by atheist?".

Most people who call themselves atheist (including famous atheists like Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens) actually fall under definition 2.

[gssixgun]

1. the doctrine or belief that there is no god.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Hmmmmm I am not seeing the difference in this two statements, unless you missed a Capital (G) on the word god, making it into the Judea-Christian "God" of Abraham....

[red96ta]

An atheist believes that there is no god where as the agnostic wants to believe in god but hasn't seen any proof of existence. The difference is primarily in desire.

[jcd]

Hmmmmm I am not seeing the difference in this two statements, unless you missed a Capital (G) on the word god, making it into the Judea-Christian "God" of Abraham....

The definitions refers to general gods, not God.

There is a subtle difference between:

1. Believing something doesn't exist (positive belief)
2. Not believing something exists (negative belief)

For example on the question of the Loch Ness Monster, I would say

"I don't think the Loch Ness Monster exists."

I wouldn't say

"I think the Loch Ness Monster doesn't exist."

[Pete_S]

Your adding things to the definition of Athiest...

The thing is, we have a problem with the Cognitive part of the definition of a "god"

Many believe in an afterlife, or reincarnation, or even a Cosmic force, but none believe that it is a thinking being that is responsible...

It is just that slight difference that makes us Atheists, we don't believe in ANY deity but anything else is still possible..

Of course each person has their own belief system, and I am by all means not saying that all Atheists believe in an afterlife, but we can, and still be an Athiest...

An Agnostic has more of the "it can't be proved therefore it doesn't exist" attitude and again that varies, by each individual...I know Agnostics that believe there is a god but they don't like any of the definitions of that god... so they fall more in the "You can't understand nor define" category

As far as I've always understood, Atheism is disbelief-- or assigning a very low probability--to a supreme being and such things as the eternal nature of the soul and the afterlife, supernatural phenomena like I mentioned earlier, and other related things. Being Atheist/Agnostic myself, thats what I've always thought, and other atheists I've discussed it with/read essays by/etc are usually in the same boat. Most Atheists of this type I've encountered (including myself) feel that gods and the afterlife are coping mechanisms for dealing with death, and their religious philosophy stems from that.

Thats interesting though, I wasn't aware of Atheists that believe in an afterlife, and that the existence of a deity is what they have a problem with. It sounds almost like a kind of Deism.

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But JCD made a valid point, Atheism has had its meanings obscured, and I think many atheists could be defined as agnostic and vice-versa- to muddy the waters further. I don't think that there are many Atheists that would positively 100% state "There is no God" most just feel that it is very, very unlikely, and would appreciate proof either way, which makes them agnostic-ish, or maybe even agnostic, I'm not really sure where one line starts and the other ends.

[paco]

OP chiming in again, After reading these posts as said in the beginning i'm still not quite clear. the Agnostic i pretty much got, there's much leeway in it's definition depending on how much or which direction of the belief, however, on the Athiesim there seems to be two slightly different definitions being stated. So,

Let me ask it this way

Atheists -
1. BELIEVE THERE IS NO GOD.
2. Make the CONCLUSIVE statement = (forming an end or termination; especially putting an end to doubt or question) THERE IS NO GOD.

with answers being either 1 or 2

Just trying to get specific because the two are very different.