Thread: Men need men...

What a great thread!

First of all .....Welcome to SRP and congrats on a well stated....statement heh ..... a real quick thanks to Jimmyhad for the Barber's advice qoute", I made a reference to it in another post and couldn't remember who's profile I had seen it on....it was very helpful...thanks man !(no pun intended) ha ha. This is very refreshing to see someone of your age writing this. I'm 47 and have been grumbling for years on this state of effeminization of the manly state. I am amazed at how I have been persicuted over the years for being a single white male who is into manly things . Apparently ....I am the scourge of the universe and am responsible for all the worlds problems. I have been judged many times for being manly which was very frustrating at times. This is a great bunch O guys for sure. Have a great manly shave and again welcome. P.S. I too am a fan of The Art of Manliness site , thx to SRP for helpin me find it . Man O man!!

Just wanted to throw this out there: while I agree with the general sentiment expressed in this thread, I'm a lot more concerned about people learning how to be good people first than I am about men learning how to be good men.

Not that the latter isn't important, but walking before running, and all that.

Originally Posted by northpaw

Just wanted to throw this out there: while I agree with the general sentiment expressed in this thread, I'm a lot more concerned about people learning how to be good people first than I am about men learning how to be good men.

Not that the latter isn't important, but walking before running, and all that.

One is the same as the other. The only difference is good masculinity or good femininity.

Originally Posted by fpessanha

I'm a great fan of The Art of Manliness (that I got to know through SRP, by the way...) and I read articles on the site everyday and I've been listening to the podcasts recently.

One of the most important base-line ideas of the philosophy of the site is precisely this: our world is feminized and men today, perhaps more than ever, need other men to be able to be MEN.

So, men need men.
....snip....

Well the title is a tad odd as another noted but
the point is spot on. The issue is NOT restricted
to men.

The modern world is lacking in honest, sober, hard working
and moral roll models.

The commercials that denigrate men because they do not
do the laundry properly should receive a pile of the proof
of purchase stickers from the competitor's products.

Shows like the "Real housewives of New Jersey" should be
shunned and their sponsors put on notice. Women should
not be invited to aspire to that level of TRASH.

Men likewise need mentors not just carpentry and shaving
but life. In a bygone age the brother of an abused wife
and his friends would take the abuser to task in no uncertain
terms. Women would not condone their friends being the other
women -- Tiger take note!

Churches would/ should spend a lot of effort teaching folk how to live
in contrast to how not to live.

It is true that life is not black and white. At times it is messy
but movies, books, etc worth my money should have a strong
moral compass.

To this point I should insert a thanks to the moderators of this
group. Thanks all.

+1 to everything Nifty said.

Now I was pretty into theatre when I was in high school, and still a little involved when I have time in college, so naturally I'm a little more "in touch with my feminine side" than most guys. I also tend to get along with girls better than guys and find myself spending time with platonic female friends more than my guy friends.

That said, I completely agree that men need other men to be men. Throughout life. As a child I needed (and had) my father as the man to look up to and aspire to be like. In my younger teens (since I'm still technically a teen) I needed my guy friends to socialize with and develop good healthy relationships to help my development, as well as older men like my father/grandfather/uncles/pastor/etc. And now I'm in that final stage of male development where my friends and I are now men and becoming equals to the men we grew up looking up to.

I still hang out with girls more than guys, but I absolutely need my guy friends too. Some things just have to be experienced and talked about with other men, girls simply won't do. Men need men.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Just a thought based on what I perceived a man was supposed to be when I was a teenager as opposed to my perception 50 years later. In my days of ironworking I knew some two fisted 'John Wayne' types who would fight at the drop of a hat and they would drop the hat. As a teenager I would have considered them a man's man.

In my adulthood I realized, observing them closely, that childishness and selfishness were the traits that were most evident in their personality. A man's man to me, once I became and adult, was a man who met his responsibilities to family, society and in the workplace. Testosterone alone doesn't define it.

That was one of the most genuine, introspective things I've read--and not just because I agree. Thank you.

Originally Posted by fpessanha

Thanks, Vulcan500rider!
That was a great post. I understand and agree with what you say. Gender roles and sex are not one and the same. Sex is biological and gender is social. And worry not, no body will tar and feather you!
It is true that there is no problem with spending most of our time with women or being brought up by women. That will not make us women - because of that thing that hangs between our legas... Nor, potentialy, will it make us feminine or feminized. But you said it yourself - there is much to be gained from spending time among our own gender, that being, spending time with men (fathers, friends, fellows from a same community...) not only because it is a way of communicating and learning (and learning is very important) but because it might help us define what is, roughly, our objective role in present day society.
But I do belive that men are losing touch with what being a man is all about. And nevermind what it is all about. I certainly cannot define what a man is supposed to be! But it generates this dangerous thought: "I'm not sure what a man is." That brings angst and doubt and will probabily tend to be a self-destructive situation. Not that one will commit suicide or anything... but will probably linger on in a bad job, in a bad house, with bad friends... It is difficult for me to explain because I certainly am not an expert in sociology. I'm a composer, so I'm just a dilletante on this subject.
The fact of the matter is: if you ask me what a real man is I will not be able to tell you. However, I feel that being here, talking to you and all these other men that are gathered here because of a common interest is a good experience. We are - as you say - spending time (even if in a virtual environment) with other men and we are all the better for it. That is the main thing. And that is why I like this place.

Thank you.

Respectfully, I would suggest that the reason you can't define a man is that there is no such thing as a singular masculinity. I think that, as nun2sharp and a number of others alluded to, there is very little difference between a good man and a good woman; each of us is made up of traits of a good/bad/indifferent HUMAN, and the experience we find with other men should help us decide who we are, and who we WANT to be. Those we take as examples of prototypical men and try to emulate help us define self.

Stylus: I was in theatre too...maybe that's why I ended up a bit more interested in considering these types of things than most guys my age...or maybe I'm just odd.

A man's man to me, once I became an adult, was a man who met his responsibilities to family, society and in the workplace. Testosterone alone doesn't define it.

Words to live by, Jimmy, Words to live by......

If we could teach this to every teenage boy and have him understand it,the world would be a lot better place in short order.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Men likewise need mentors not just carpentry and shaving
but life. In a bygone age the brother of an abused wife
and his friends would take the abuser to task in no uncertain
terms. Women would not condone their friends being the other
women -- Tiger take note!

Churches would/ should spend a lot of effort teaching folk how to live
in contrast to how not to live.

It is true that life is not black and white. At times it is messy
but movies, books, etc worth my money should have a strong
moral compass.

I think that part of the problem today is that people -both men and women- take already too much influences from outside without criticism, be it arts, TV, movies, religion (in some cases), media etc.
It is sad really that adult people need to find something or someone to tell how to live properly, while they should have learned it as they grew up, by themselves or by their parents. Are we so lost?