Thread: Men need men...

Originally Posted by fpessanha

But... but... I LIKE QUICHE!!

So that lies at the root of your predicament!

At least you shave with a straight, but alas, even some girls do that too! You're living in a confusing world.

Ever considered moving to Saudi Arabia?

Originally Posted by fpessanha

But... but... I LIKE QUICHE!!

No worries, once the book was written eating quiche in spite of it would be a manly thing to do.

Originally Posted by Kees

So that lies at the root of your predicament!

At least you shave with a straight, but alas, even some girls do that too! You're living in a confusing world.

Ever considered moving to Saudi Arabia?

I'm not confused! I'm just a manly man that happens to like quiche!
And why Saudi Arabia?...

But seriously - there is no confusion on my part. I know what I am. I just have this thing that is always working against me: I over-think, over-analyse, over-state and tend to talk and write for incredibly long periods of time. The results are never pretty: people sleeping, long threads with people telling me I shouldn't eat quiche...
My first post on this thread is a classic case in point: I over-think. And because I am writing in a foreign language, my choice of words may not be as good as it should. I'm not confused with anything. It just happens that this question about manliness has been lurking at the back of my mind for a long time... and it was time I took this intelectual quiche out of the brain-cell powered oven.

Admit it: you are a philosopher!

Originally Posted by Kees

Admit it: you are a philosopher!

Well... yes, I admit it. But I consider myself more of an intelectual-extraordinaire! Philosophy is a pasion. As is sociology and history and most fields of human sciences. But I am a dilletante in all of them. And a dilletante that likes quiche, at that!...

fpessanha I am not sure what sort of activities or attitudes you wish to engage in to become more manly.

Being male, as i am, why then is it not so- that whatever I may do is manly?

I believe it is.

I am lacking in some of those higher qualities that would make me a better human being. Those aspects when expressed continuously through our actions; the ones that make us better, more conscious, compassionate, loving human beings are manly as a default function of our maleness.

Culturally defined roles are variable. In indigenous or "primitive" cultures these may offer meaningful survival based functions. In contemporary western society I do not find that to be the case. The dysfunctional aspects of our society need to be healed. The answer; however, is not contained within some idealistic image of the past, or mythical golden age when men were men and women in their proper place.

Afterall it is because of those unrealistic, unnatural, expectations of what we should be that have gotten us to where we are now!

(Personally I have never been attracted to girly-girls. I prefer a companion who is a bit more hardy. Nor do I like to hang out with macho men who have never read a poem or appreciate the beauty of flowers)

Originally Posted by kevint

fpessanha I am not sure what sort of activities or attitudes you wish to engage in to become more manly.
(...)
(Personally I have never been attracted to girly-girls. I prefer a companion who is a bit more hardy. Nor do I like to hang out with macho men who have never read a poem or appreciate the beauty of flowers)

I am not searching for a list of things to do or to stdy in order to become "more manly". I am manly enough... That is not the problem. The question is theoretical. It was always intended to be a refelction upon manliness, the healthy and necessary relationships established between men and what it means to be a man today. Never was this intended to be a confession booth for insecurities or doubts.
I admit it - I am not a practical man and I tend (as I've already said) to over-think and over-analyse. I see my little world as a potential intelectual problem. Therefore I lack the pragmatism usualy associated with the americans. And you must mind the fact that english is my second language so you have to take it with a pinch of salt...
I have no need to do anything in order to "become more manly", I repeat. I appreciate the beauty of flowers although I don't really like poetry. But I'm a composer, therefore, I ultimately have embarqued in quest for beauty. My word is one of details, of small delicate things - thoughts, gestures, sounds... And there are men that carry hammers and chew tobacco. It doesn't matter if what you do for a living is considered to be manly. And mind me, the idea of manliness is a creation of culture. It is gender, not strictly sex.
And yes, I always have prefered strong, decided women. The girly girl doesn't attract me. Nor do I have any fondness for the brute idiot that thinks that chewing nails is manly... What I do like is good people. Good men and good women. But... the question is: is there anything that may help create good men? And my thesis is: other men are needed to create good men. That's why I've said that men need man.
Please stop suggesting that I'm the one in distress and raising questions about my own masculinity. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Now that the ranting is over... all activities may be resumed.

I did not mean to suggest you are in distress. You say that men need men; however, I am less sure. In most ways the things required to be a good man can be learned from women and children.

Originally Posted by kevint

I did not mean to suggest you are in distress. You say that men need men; however, I am less sure. In most ways the things required to be a good man can be learned from women and children.

Yes & No. Women & children can help a man learn certain things but I disagree that male teenagers & children can teach each other to be men.

There is an interesting body of work related to elephants and zoos.
It was fond that elephants needed "adult" teacher elephants to learn
how to be elephants and function in a herd.