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  1. #101
    Senior Member blabbermouth JimmyHAD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoseWarmer View Post
    I was always told not to talk religion, politics or football...
    +1, I might add hone preference and honing methods to the list ....
    Be careful how you treat people on your way up, you may meet them again on your way back down.

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  3. #102
    Little Bear richmondesi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LX_Emergency View Post
    Always correcting people eh? Thanks for the correction. Why is subjecting not correct in this case? (honestly don't know and I'd like to know)
    It means what you thought it does, but it's only rarely used in that sense. Some people may have forgotten, or never knew, that it means that, but there's no reason for a correction.

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  5. #103
    Senior Member blabbermouth ScoutHikerDad's Avatar
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    Okay, I'll break my own rule here about discussing religion or politics and toss in my 2 cents, fwiw. Like many people, I hold a fuzzy mix of several belief systems (not all of them admittedly compatible with the others); the God (gods?) I believe in is a far greater force than any human can comprehend, and to me is the great life force that drives all creation in a constant state of creation and destruction, life and death. It (creation) is clearly an on-going process that a great deal of math and astrophysical research theorize originated in the Big Bang around 14 billion years ago. (And the dangerously-curious people like me have always wondered, what was there before that? And just what is at the "edge" of the universe? And what exactly does quantum physics do to the whole picture, with its bizarre notions of an infinite number of "multiverses"?) Alas, there are always more questions than answers, and I am okay with that. Over the years, then, I have become a fuzzy mish-mash of a Christian/Buddhist/Pagan/Transcendentalist who often wonders what the fine folks at the Methodist Church I attend (occasionally, anyway) would think if I shared some of these beliefs with them-probably not much here in the heart of the Bible Belt. And the older I get, the more okay I am with that too...

    As to the age of the Earth, geologists have a myriad of pretty accurate ways of determining at least approximate ages of geological structures. If I recall my college geology course (and a good deal of study since), analyzing the rate of decay of certain isotopes in (correct me if I am wrong) silica crystals is just one way. The nearly 2-billion year old Vishnu Schist at the bottom of thousands of layers of sedimentary rock in the Grand Canyon is just one example, as are the oldest mountains on earth at several hundred million years, the Appalachians where I camp and fish. And to discount the overwhelming evidence for evolution (which has been shown in just a few generations in certain insect species in particular (not to mention those pesky, rapidly-evolving viruses and bacteria that adapt to our assaults with antibiotics faster than we can develop new drugs), one must dismiss the very foundations of modern biology.

    There is a lot of work being done in the last few decades to try and reconcile science and faith, creation and evolution. It might be interesting to see where that leads, though as others have pointed out, their inherent differences will probably have the two sides squabbling for the foreseeable future.

    Anyway, Happy New Year and great shaves, gentlemen, regardless of what you believe! Aaron
    Last edited by ScoutHikerDad; 12-29-2010 at 09:57 PM.
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  7. #104
    Senior Member blabbermouth JimmyHAD's Avatar
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    I've dabbled with Hindu and Buddhist scriptures as well and briefly taught a bible class at a Baptist church. Bottom line is we won't know until we go to "the other side" and there will either be something there or nothingness. I'd rather believe in something than nothing.
    Be careful how you treat people on your way up, you may meet them again on your way back down.

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  9. #105
    There is no charge for Awesomeness Jimbo's Avatar
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    Well, based on that data it appears that, on the face of it, the scientific explanation is correct. When the polls reach 6/10 then, and only then, shall I believe, but not quite as strongly as I would believe if it ever got to 8/10. If it ever got to that level, I would take my Prius and tour the world proclaiming this inconvenient truth.

    In all seriousness, given the definition of "God", I have no problem with admitting that "God" created the Universe and everything in it. It's the "how" and "when" bits that are sticking points for me.

    James.
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  11. #106
    Vlad the Impaler LX_Emergency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    In all seriousness, given the definition of "God", I have no problem with admitting that "God" created the Universe and everything in it. It's the "how" and "when" bits that are sticking points for me.

    James.
    And THAT's where science steps in.

  12. #107
    Super Shaver xman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LX_Emergency View Post
    Always correcting people eh? Thanks for the correction. Why is subjecting not correct in this case? (honestly don't know and I'd like to know)
    Well, we just don't use the word that way. 'Subjecting' implies force. A 'submition' is an offer.

    Quote Originally Posted by LX_Emergency View Post
    It's the same thing however. This because past results NEVER fully garantuee future results. Even when something has been done 9999 times and went the same way EVERY TIME that still means something different could happen the next time. ...
    But when something never ever submits itself to empiricism at all, which is religion, it's not playing by the same rules. It's a different thing.

  13. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by volleykinginnc View Post
    I'm surprised that it is as low as 40%. You don't have to have a higher education to see that the world has a design.

    It's kind of weird that we can look at anything at all in this world that has a design and will attribute it to a designer but when it comes to the most complicated designs of all like the human brain we somehow have fooled ourselves in to thinking that it could have come about by accident.

    That's like if we went to Mars and found Mount Rushmore and started arguing on how long it took for wind errosion to make such a formation.
    I think Douglas Adams summed up why we confuse adaptation with design.

    "Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!"

  14. #109
    JMS
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    Usagi Yojimbo JMS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joscobo View Post
    I think Douglas Adams summed up why we confuse adaptation with design.

    "Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!"
    Could we have been designed to adapt?

  15. #110
    Junior Member TheMetatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xman View Post
    ...A 'submition' is an offer.
    That spelling doesn't appear in my unabridged. Did you mean to spell it "submission"?

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