Thread: Gallup Poll: 4 in 10 believe man created by God 10,000 years ago

Originally Posted by Bruno

I am arguing about using the bible as a book of facts.
When it comes to things like the age of the earth, I have the laws of physics and the evidence on my side. All those things confirm each other and can also be tested by predicting things and then checking those predictions.

The '10000 years' myth can even be a belief. But calling it science and teaching it as such... yes, I call that stupid. You seem to say that under no circumstance should I use that word.

To call it science is to completely fail to understand what 'science' is.
Look, I don't know what caused the world to come into being. Neither do you. There are several creation myths, and based on which belief you have, you believe one or the other. And I don't belittle that.

However, denying the entire corpus of verifiable science in favor of something that has NO basis in observable reality, and to call that thing science...

"Myth" & "stupid" are two words I don't use when discussing things with people I respect that we disagree about. At least not when discussing very personally held values/beliefs...

Maybe I am stupid, though. ...

Creation myth is a common term to desribe the various stories of how the world came into being. How would you describe them, which word would you suggest?

And you didn't answer my question in my previous post: what about the idea that the earth is still flat, in this day and age?

Originally Posted by Bruno

@richmondesi:
You seem to have a problem with calling opinions stupid.
I read recently that there are still a small group of people who believe the flat eath myths. Does that belief count as stupid, or do we also need to value it and respect it because God might have given us the illusion of a round earth, even though it is really flat, and it is not unreasonable to believe something that virtually everyone can verify for themselves by e.g watching a boat sail past the horizon?

Can we definitively prove the earth isn't flat? Yes

Can we observe retrospectively? No

Or do we try to interpret what we've seen? The universe and every other system is moving toward disorder, right? But progressively complex organization of systems came from nothing.

I'm interested in observations that illustrate increased order and complexity.

PS, I didn't answer the question because I'm on my cell phone, and was having lunch with a friend (not all my friends are on the computer - btw, that's a reference to "Funny People" don't get worked up)

I was once told: if you work through lunch, you're pretending to work while pretending to eat. The same could perhaps be said about internetting through a friendly lunch.
SRP will still be here later today barring an unexpected apocalypse. Eat first, discuss later
Bon appetit.

In the unlikely event that the apocalypse should happen, you'll probably have more pressing things on your mind that this discussion anyway...

Originally Posted by richmondesi

Or do we try to interpret what we've seen? The universe and every other system is moving toward disorder, right? But progressively complex organization of systems came from nothing.

I'm interested in observations that illustrate increased order and complexity.

Why do you say they came from nothing? Are you referring to the Big Bang?

As human beings who's entire lineage is a product of this planet we are constrained by conditions on this plant. Afterall we can't live on the moon or mars. There are concepts most humans can't grasp. Our lives are ruled by cycles. The sun's rising and setting, the moons rising and setting. The calendar, the march of time. We are born and then die. Most can't accept the concept of say the Universe being infinite or anything else for that matter being infinite. It has no beginning and no end, it is there and has always been there. Most folks would say well, the Universe might be big, very big but eventually you come to the end and then what? Is there a wall and if there is whats behind it.

Our brains and everything we create is based on how we interpret our world. Many animals have senses far different than us and live in a very different world than we do. All our tools and mathematics are based on how we see things. maybe some dude from another world is quite different and our round earth he might see as some polygon we can't fathom. Maybe little things might make big differences. Maybe if we could visualize the entire light spectrum from infrared through x rays and radio signals our world would be very different.

Just a thought.

Originally Posted by NYCshaver

Why do you say they came from nothing? Are you referring to the Big Bang?

When you answer how you can say that "the concept of god was invented" isn't tantamount to saying there is no god, I'll be happy to discuss this.

And no, I'm not necessarily implying anything about the Big Bang

Originally Posted by Bruno

And in some schools (like in Texas ?) they are now teaching Creationism as 'science' alongside evolution. As a result, they are spreading their stupidity.

This is undeniably horrifying. I thought you guys had a small piece of constitutional legislation entitled 'The First Ammendment' preventing this kind of thing.

Some of my very best friends are men of faith. Personally, it appears blindingly obvious that religion is an unnecessary vestige that we have carried over from the infancy of our species. A clumsy attempt at explaining what could not be explained at that time with science. One day we will look back on it as we now view the theory that the earth is flat... with mild amusement and much appreciation of the scientific advances we have made in the last two to three hundred years. Heretic indeed

The Bible is a fine book as long one picks and chooses from it well. I think everybody with decent historical knowledge can provide plenty of examples throughout the last 2000 years of picking and choosing badly. I would say chances are that say 50, or 100 years from now people will find some of the currently accepted 'Biblical mores' rather primitive and inconsistent with the 'spirit of the Bible'.

4 in 10 Americans are damn idiots.