Thread: Protesting in Wisconsin....Just the beginning?

Originally Posted by LAsoxfan

Where is it that Government pensions are paid for by others? I've been contributing roughly 9% of my paycheck for the past 22 years into the pension fund.

That's exactly the solution to the problem, you put aside 9% or as much as you want of your paycheck, save it/invest it any way you want, and leave the taxpayers out of funding your pension.

One thing I find interesting in this situation is that people say, "They have it so much better than I do". And the answer seems to be to drag them down to my level. Why isn't the question, Why don't I get what they have?

Just a thought,

Tim

That was todays protest sorta thousand more joined in support of the bill. No one is trying to drag them down. If your wife spent 1,000 dollars a day and it was out of your budget would you say how can I spend that much also or would you cut her spending? Without this legislature some of them are going to lose there jobs there is just not enough money to support their current situation.

Originally Posted by 32t

One thing I find interesting in this situation is that people say, "They have it so much better than I do". And the answer seems to be to drag them down to my level. Why isn't the question, Why don't I get what they have?

Just a thought,

Tim

You are correct, sir! Until people start thinking this way & demanding to be treated better, this race to the bottom will continue. In many ways, lots of American workers today are their own worst enemies. If one group gets a pay raise, other people should be happy because it raises the bar for everybody. Instead, they snipe about how that group "doesn't deserve it".

Keep in mind, corporate profits in most sectors are just about as high as they've ever been, so it's not like companies can't afford it... It would be good for the economy too as more dollars would be in circulation again. Then we could improve our falling apart infrastructure, etc.

Instead, most people would rather watch "American idol" (I deliberately used lower case for the 2nd word!) & complain instead of getting off their behinds & doing something about it...

Originally Posted by knightwolf

That was todays protest sorta thousand more joined in support of the bill. No one is trying to drag them down. If your wife spent 1,000 dollars a day and it was out of your budget would you say how can I spend that much also or would you cut her spending? Without this legislature some of them are going to lose there jobs there is just not enough money to support their current situation.

I think what 32t was saying was more related to the private sector. Most big companies today are not hurting in the least for cash. Governments are a different matter, but again, if we had more (good paying) jobs in the private sector, there would be more tax revenue, so...

Keep in mind, most of the unions agreed to the planned pay/benefit cuts. THey may have been vocal in their dislike of the way they were handled, but they're not out there simply because of cuts. The key thing is that the governor is trying to bust their unions altogether. That's what everyone is (rightly) worked up about.

Originally Posted by PA23-250

You are correct, sir! Until people start thinking this way & demanding to be treated better, this race to the bottom will continue. In many ways, lots of American workers today are their own worst enemies. If one group gets a pay raise, other people should be happy because it raises the bar for everybody. Instead, they snipe about how that group "doesn't deserve it".

These are my thoughts.

nightwolf,

15 years ago my proprety taxes in Wisc were $100 now they are $2,200 So I am a part of this. I feel your pain. I have thought of selling.

Tim

Originally Posted by PA23-250

You are correct, sir! Until people start thinking this way & demanding to be treated better, this race to the bottom will continue. In many ways, lots of American workers today are their own worst enemies. If one group gets a pay raise, other people should be happy because it raises the bar for everybody. Instead, they snipe about how that group "doesn't deserve it".

Keep in mind, corporate profits in most sectors are just about as high as they've ever been, so it's not like companies can't afford it... It would be good for the economy too as more dollars would be in circulation again. Then we could improve our falling apart infrastructure, etc.

Instead, most people would rather watch "American idol" (I deliberately used lower case for the 2nd word!) & complain instead of getting off their behinds & doing something about it...

Here's the only problem I see with what you've said: Public workers get pay raises at the expense of taxpayers. I guess I don't understand why the average tax payer would be happy with public workers "raising the bar for everybody" when the money is coming out of the pocket of the tax payer.

Chris L

Originally Posted by ChrisL

Here's the only problem I see with what you've said: Public workers get pay raises at the expense of taxpayers. I guess I don't understand why the average tax payer would be happy with public workers "raising the bar for everybody" when the money is coming out of the pocket of the tax payer.

Chris L

This wouldnt be a problem if the taxpayers manufacturing jobs hadnt gone overseas. Also before the legislature asks them to pony up the concessions maybe the legislature should make some concessions of their own for the sake of the public pocket book, lead by example.

I don't think the problem is in the manufacturing jobs. The fact of the matter is that these jobs do not require as high qualifications as they may have in the past, therefore they correspond to a lower standard of living and end up in countries where people are more willing to accept such a standard.
It's analogous to the industrial revolution, when a machine can make something much faster and much better than a human with rudimentary tools, these old jobs become redundant.

Then with globalization americans also face more competition, so it seems reasonable that in the bigger pool you may end up being a smaller frog.

Of course, there's also the problem of businesses externalizing costs and selling it to politicians for money and to the joe-six-pack as anti-regulation and pro-business. And government waste appears to be only wasteful when it doesn't benefit the person making such determination.

The nature of free market is that it is conductive to creating big economic disparities. And, sadly, a lot of voters are pretty easy to manipulate with ideological propaganda, and don't understand that at the end of the day the more important thing in their life is the nature of the society they live in.

The american political system though is designed from day one to be based on elitism. But there is also the feedback from those not in power, who are the vast majority. As long as they are wiling to accept the way they are being ruled, that's how it ends up being (the congress reelection rates are around 90%, same as always). Unfortunately it seems to be often producing the worst of both worlds - corrupt establishment and incompetent populists.

It's always interesting to look at the polls who ask the quality questions without trying to bias them with ideology, e.g. what do they think is the level of economic disparity and what do they think it should be. Vastly different results than if you ask about tax cuts.

On the TV news tonight I was told that the average public/government employee in Wisc is paid 4.something percent less than the private sector. As a national average it is around 7% less. Gotta do more research but food for thought.

Tim