Thread: Mini Rant: "I Feel" vs. "I Think"

That was a brilliant post Jim.
Thank you.

Originally Posted by HNSB

That was a brilliant post Jim.
Thank you.

Thank you.

This is actually something I've spent a fair amount of time examining because it affects how people determine and understand truth, and subsequently how they establish their values.


So far as the side-rant...

I hate the improper use of "it's" and "its". It's is a contraction of "it is", while "its" is a term expressing possession. IE: It's his razor. Its scales are red.

Affect vs. effect is another issue, but I only run across it in written communication.

I also hate the lack of proper sentence and paragraph structure. I grade a lot of papers where students never press the return button the whole time they're typing. It's impossible to catch on when they've changed topics.

Okay, now I've added to both rants.

Big Jim, should we ever meet, I want to buy you a good cup of coffee and chat.

I knew you had taste from your avatar, know I learn you're accustomed to what I call "big picture thinkin'"! lol

I think the topic of our conversation should be titled: "Truth, and Two Hundred Years."

Of course, all are welcomed.


Cheers, and Good Night.



(You don't by chance mingle in trad. archery? There's a "BigJim" in that corner of the cyber-world as well.)

Your mini-rant goes to the heart of how we perceive reality and how decisions get made which have real consequences in all of our lives. Not everything can be measured and at the edge of that cozy and comfortable domain is the qualitative domain of "I feel", "It seems", and even "I think" which, I agree, is often a euphemism for "I feel" with the implication of some kind of structured thought process based on some analytical process.

In my line of work I don't buy it and I call it every time it comes up. At some point you have to come up with some data that's obtained in a standardized manner and presented with alternative and conflicting conclusions others have come up with using similar processes. I don't accept proof - either qualitatively obtained or quantitatively determined - which supports a "cheerleader" approach for an idea. That smacks of "I feel and I want you to believe what I feel because of all of the clever albeit questionable data I'm about to present". Nice try.

You're absolutely right and looking at the world around us you can see the result of decisions made on the basis of "I feel" vs. "I know".

Except here. Either your shaving process results in an acceptable shave as defined by you or it doesn't! If it doesn't, I feel we can help . . . .

Now, let's talk about "reaching out" instead of just . . . talking to somebody.

Originally Posted by Soilarch

(You don't by chance mingle in trad. archery? There's a "BigJim" in that corner of the cyber-world as well.)

I think it'd be fun, but no. Must be another BigJim. Oh, and if I ever make it down that way I'll look you up.

Originally Posted by Howard

In my line of work I don't buy it and I call it every time it comes up. ...

Except here. Either your shaving process results in an acceptable shave as defined by you or it doesn't! If it doesn't, I feel we can help . . . .

Now, let's talk about "reaching out" instead of just . . . talking to somebody.

1) I'm curious. What is your line of work?

2) I have to chuckle at your, "Except here...as defined by you" line. It's the same kind of subjective, individualistic basis for reality that's immune to external critique unless you open yourself to it, as opposed to an objective truth about the quality of your shave. On the one hand, a guy could shave himself and think it's pretty good, and even promote his style of shaving, but leave himself and anyone who follows him into a bloody, scarred mess. We would all agree that's NOT a good shave. But on the other hand, if you're satisfied with your shave that's all that matters. If your wife/boss (employer) is not satisfied they will drive you toward dissatisfaction with your shave and then you'll seek to improve it, and then once again your own satisfaction is all that matters. The pros and cons of subjective and objective reality.

3) "Reaching out" vs. just talking to somebody. You're evil and you can keep that can of worms to yourself!

Originally Posted by BigJim

3) "Reaching out" vs. just talking to somebody. You're evil and you can keep that can of worms to yourself!

What do you get when you cross a telephone with a rooster?
A 50' c*** that wants to reach out and touch you.

"eat flaming death, gravy sucking reachouters"

Mini Rants, Triggers,
We perceive events in front of us. We also interrupt the same events that happen. The perception and the interpretation happen almost simultaneously, thus we confuse the two for being the same thing.
I feel vs I think is a use of what is called "I Speach" which lends itself from Assertive Communication. One usually can't disagree with the way another feels. Where as one could take it upon their self to disagree with the way another thinks.
Here is a brief example.
"When you don't wipe off you boots and track mud into my house , I feel you don"t respect my home. Please leave your muddy boots outside." Substitute think with feel and the mudtracker then has the chance to disagree than he in fact does respect your home, and the home owner has got it all wrong and is oversensitve about his floors.
Assertive communication using I speach held both people responsible and treated one another with respect. Therefore there is no "I should have told him to/I should have said..." afterwords like "Wipe your @#$%ing boots!!!"
I tried to keep it short.-J

Originally Posted by BigJim

The language difference may be semantics, but it's indicative of an overarching shift in Western world view.

mmm, I'm not so sure on this point. It could, perhaps, even be argued that your conclusion is based on what you 'feel' to be true, rather than what has been empirically tested. I don't know if 100 years a go or 200 years a go there was a conversational interchange of the use of the world feel and think depending on the topic or circumstances in which the conversation was being held.

The point about 'agree to disagree' as being logically followed by 'there should be one example of everything' doesn't follow either IMO, the opposite I think. The point of that phrase is to allow and accept a difference of opinion rather than simply reducing a discussion to a dogmatic preaching of one view vs the other. It promotes the idea that differences are ok, not that they should be removed.

Originally Posted by JohnnyCakeDC

Mini Rants, Triggers,
We perceive events in front of us. We also interrupt the same events that happen. The perception and the interpretation happen almost simultaneously, thus we confuse the two for being the same thing.
I feel vs I think is a use of what is called "I Speach" which lends itself from Assertive Communication. One usually can't disagree with the way another feels. Where as one could take it upon their self to disagree with the way another thinks.
Here is a brief example.
"When you don't wipe off you boots and track mud into my house , I feel you don"t respect my home. Please leave your muddy boots outside." Substitute think with feel and the mudtracker then has the chance to disagree than he in fact does respect your home, and the home owner has got it all wrong and is oversensitve about his floors.
Assertive communication using I speach held both people responsible and treated one another with respect. Therefore there is no "I should have told him to/I should have said..." afterwords like "Wipe your @#$%ing boots!!!"
I tried to keep it short.-J

This is a very valuable approach I've used in marriage counseling. Great example btw. I think it's a better way of communicating the truth of the matter. The issue in your example, for instance, is what party A FEELS about what party B does with their boots. Likely, party A is the one who cleans the floors and works hard to keep them maintained and sanitary. They FEEL disrespected when party B doesn't think to take off their boots, or wipe them clean.

Partner this type of communication with an avoidance of absolutes and your marriage conversations will be more conversation and less argument. (Absolutes like: You never wipe your @#$#ing boots! cause problems b/c he did wipe his boots that one time 8 years ago and it's still a valid example of at least one instance wherein he wiped his boots. Alternatives would be "You haven't wiped your boots in at least a month" or "I can't remember the last time you took your boots off before coming in.) This is all kind of off topic.

Originally Posted by gregs656

mmm, I'm not so sure on this point. It could, perhaps, even be argued that your conclusion is based on what you 'feel' to be true, rather than what has been empirically tested. I don't know if 100 years a go or 200 years a go there was a conversational interchange of the use of the world feel and think depending on the topic or circumstances in which the conversation was being held.

2 Points here. 1) I'm not saying that pre-industrial revolution there was an exchange of the word feel for the word think. I believe that there was a different meta-question that served as the motivation for societal quests and endeavors. I believe these questions can be teased out from a comprehensive study of history as the questions we seek answers too always drive our actions.

2) It may have been more appropriate for me to make that comment under the commentary section, but it's accurate to say that I THINK the change in language indicates a paradigm shift, and I base my thoughts on my experiences in the social sciences, psychology, history, and religion. I could be wrong, but I don't THINK I am. Unfortunately I have neither the time nor desire to lay out a full bibliographical report on the formation of my position. But at this point I may be

FWIW

Peace,
Jim

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

"I feel" absolves the speaker from future blame, since their suggestion was (apparently) based on intuition. They will be praised for offering such heartfelt and genuine advice, and will not be criticized for using poor reasoning skills if it turns out to be poor advice

I feel that phrase is a pet-peeve for you because you do not like subtly implemented cop-outs. If I am wrong just remember, it's the feeling that counts

Excellent summation. I couldn't agree more with your assessment.