Thread: Nanny State Strikes Again!

Speaking of Christian - it's interesting that much of the art of the early renaissance was commissioned over people's guilt about violating the usury laws of the Church.
It would be interesting if bankers were that worried about their souls these days - we would have great works of art all over the place.

Originally Posted by 1OldGI

Please explain to me what is Christian or even charitable about a citizen who pays the government racketeers enough protection money to stay out of prison? Seems to me, if folks want to demonstrate their true sense of charity (Christian or otherwise) they should do so of their own free will. Volunteer work, donations to churches or other charitable causes of your own choosing would be examples.

Please explain to me how it is Christian to turn a blind eye to suffering, to have millions that are uninsured turned away at hospital doors or forced into bankruptcy? Please explain to me how it is Christian to say it's every man for himself and not have a care for the underpriviledged. Oh, that's right, OTHER PEOPLE will take care of that with low level charity so you won't have to think about it. As my comment wasn't directed at you, or even regarding your much loathed gub'ment, all I can say is that's very Christian of you.

Originally Posted by HNSB

I think there is something to be said for the idea: "The best way to help mankind is to make sure that mankind never needs to help you."

That "every man for himself" attitude sounds good in theory, but doesn't work that well in reality. Everyone needs some help or compassion sometime in their life. You never had to borrow a few bucks from your folks when you were growing up or starting out? Never had to crash on a buddies' couch?

Of course I have. I was just saying... there's something to the idea.

At this point I have mostly stopped arguing and am just posting for my own amusement.

Originally Posted by Ryan82

Please explain to me how it is Christian to turn a blind eye to suffering, to have millions that are uninsured turned away at hospital doors or forced into bankruptcy? Please explain to me how it is Christian to say it's every man for himself and not have a care for the underpriviledged. Oh, that's right, OTHER PEOPLE will take care of that with low level charity so you won't have to think about it. As my comment wasn't directed at you, or even regarding your much loathed gub'ment, all I can say is that's very Christian of you.

I said nothing of turning a blind eye to anyone. Don't know how the Canadian propaganda machine works but despite what you may have heard, refusal of medical attention based on ability to pay is against the law in the United States. And FWIW, more people have been driven into bankruptcy by overreaching government intervention (especially the gangsters at the IRS) than medical bills. As far as my own "charitable contributions" not only have I paid every penny I ever owed in income taxes but thanks to my voracious appetite for all things tobacco, I've been instrumental in providing God knows how many under priveleged children with health care, my contributions to social security have undoubtedly went to one of "The Greatest Generation" and I have no problem with that except for contrary to one of the first promises in the War on Poverty, when I'm too old to work, I'll probably see NOTHING. Thanks to my government's wonderful stewardship of that program. Oh yeah, I do make charitable donations to other organizations as well.

My government has waged a "War on Poverty" and beat the same Christian charity and patriotism drum since the Johnson administration (about a year after I came off the teat). The war on poverty was consistently used to justify deeper and deeper digs into the pockets of hard working people and whatever was coming in never seemed to be enough. The truth of the matter is that our government has woefully mismanaged every penny every collected during the War on Poverty. The only successful battle of this war was to create an entire subculture, completely dependent on the nanny state and completely incapable of becoming self reliant.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Nice try however it's not that someone failed to mention the previous heart attack but more in line with some obscure test you took 15 years ago that was negative but forgot to list it and they use that to deny coverage.

First it was "lied about something on your application" now it's "forgot." The story changed.

Originally Posted by 1OldGI

I've been instrumental in providing God knows how many under priveleged children with health care, my contributions to social security have undoubtedly went to one of "The Greatest Generation" and I have no problem with that except for contrary to one of the first promises in the War on Poverty, when I'm too old to work, I'll probably see NOTHING.

Yup, so have I. And if it makes you feel any better I won't see a dime of CPP (Canada Pension Plan) either.

Originally Posted by 1OldGI

The only successful battle of this war was to create an entire subculture, completely dependent on the nanny state and completely incapable of becoming self reliant.

Same thing happens here too, too many people reliant on Welfare and EI. The heart of these programs is compassion, but it is abuse that is the root of the problem, not the existence of social assistance itself. Sure, government puts forth the programs, but whose fault is it that the programs are abused? The government for not being stringent enough, or the individuals for abusing the system? I think blaming the goverment for creating a welfare subculture is overgeneralizing a bit.

Originally Posted by 1OldGI

FWIW, more people have been driven into bankruptcy by overreaching government intervention (especially the gangsters at the IRS) than medical bills.

I don't doubt that it exists, but my curiosity about things would like to see a reference for this.

Originally Posted by Ryan82

it is abuse that is the root of the problem, not the existence of social assistance itself.

Bingo!!!!

To all those people that think we don't pay enough taxes, feel free to send in a much as you like.

Telling me that I must contribute because YOU want to help people is tyranny.

Originally Posted by Crotalus

To all those people that think we don't pay enough taxes, feel free to send in a much as you like.

Telling me that I must contribute because YOU want to help people is tyranny.

I agree that many people are overtaxed, but I also think that many are undertaxed.
The whole system is broken.

But, saying that you shouldn't have to contribute is nonsense. Government most definitely serves a purpose.
The only question is what purpose and to what extent....

I happen to think that the government takes in more than it should, and wastes a lot, so I am not entirely in disagreement with your sentiment, but blanket statements don't really help an argument either.