Thread: Where Do We Draw The Line?

Originally Posted by joebehar

I believe voting is an obligation not a right.

I believe the obligation ought to be educating yourself about the candidates before voting.

Just before the last election I was watching TV with my sister, there was a guy that looked like Obama and I said, "Wow - that guy looks a lot like Barack Obama."
She said "Who is that?"

How does a vote from someone like that help anyone?

(note: my sister doesn't vote - and I think that's a good thing.)

Originally Posted by gugi

So you want to draw the line towards mandatory voting? Doesn't sound like a step toward more freedom to me. For most people voting is a waste of time.
Of course, you can do a market based solution - let voters be able to openly sell their vote to the highest bidder. You'll probably get the same results as now, but at lower overall cost.

No wasn't suggesting mandatory voting but it would be much better if people saw it as a civic duty than simply throwing up their hands and saying screw it (as tempting as that may be.) I guess I haven't answered the question yet. Where do I draw the line? Not sure, but I'm pretty sure when I put to to words, I'll get beat to death over it.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I love this type of discussion started by people who are concerned about the nanny state.
It is a reality that if the government did no mandate certain things, private enterprise / capitalism would not 'compete fairly to the best interest of the consumer'. They would collude, and lie, cheat and steal to get as much money out of your pocket as possible.

And those in government never collude, and lie, cheat and steal to get as much money out of your pocket as possible? The difference is that you have a choice not to participate with private industry. If you allow yourself to be fooled into participation by their tactics, especially when you should know better, then shame on you. If you refuse to participate with mandates of government, regardless if those mandates are legitimate or not, then the government can seize you or your property. Which would you prefer?

And in response to the OP:

It seems that we often forget that the line already exists in the form of our constitution which defines the rule of law that our government must follow. If we fail, or neglect, to read, understand and enforce the rules of the game, then it's anyone's game. And then who's to decide if the game was fairly played or not?

Originally Posted by honedright

And those in government never collude, and lie, cheat and steal to get as much money out of your pocket as possible? The difference is that you have a choice not to participate with private industry. If you allow yourself to be fooled into participation by their tactics, especially when you should know better, then shame on you. If you refuse to participate with mandates of government, regardless if those mandates are legitimate or not, then the government can seize you or your property. Which would you prefer?

+100 if you're counting on the government to be the arbitor of fair equitable and honest...Wow! let me know how that works out for ya. By definition, life is not fair and nothing is equal. If one of the "dastardly Capitalists" has the tumerity to make more money than I do, good for him. Don't know about you but I never got a paycheck from anyone who makes less money than me. I have less than zero problem with laws and legislation keeping opportunities equal. Results however should be left to the individual. Otherwise where's the incentive to work hard or do anything exceptional? In any such "egalitarian" economy, citizens regardless of their unique talents, intelligence and work ethic, become little more than farm animals, queuing up at the government trough at the appointed time. The only thing being equally distributed is misery. Unless of course you're part of the government elite, in which case, you have the best of everything while the common folks at best have whatever is left. It really is like a sophisticated intellectual exercise in slopping the hogs and guess what, most of us are hogs. Thanks but no.

Originally Posted by Crotalus

The hysterical response is triggered by National stories about Canadian medicine. Like the parents of a child that had a terminal illness. They wanted to continue to treat the kid and the government refused. They wouldn't even allow the parents to purchase treatment. The hospitals were ordered to let him die. They brought the kid here to the US for treatment. The kid finally died, but the frightening part was the governments decision to kill the kid instead of leaving it up to the parents.

That's exactly what I mean about a faceless bureaucrat deciding if you live or die. It wasn't the doctors.

I would be interested in a link or two to that story before I care to comment. I can say that a friend of mine went to our local hospital and underwent tests. They found he had a heart problem and a few days later they flew him an hour and half away to under go open heart surgery. All went well and he was flown home. Virtually no out of pocket expenses. He has absolutely no complaints. You got your stories and I have mine.

Bob

Originally Posted by Crotalus

The hysterical response is triggered by National stories about Canadian medicine. Like the parents of a child that had a terminal illness. They wanted to continue to treat the kid and the government refused. They wouldn't even allow the parents to purchase treatment. The hospitals were ordered to let him die. They brought the kid here to the US for treatment. The kid finally died, but the frightening part was the governments decision to kill the kid instead of leaving it up to the parents.

That's exactly what I mean about a faceless bureaucrat deciding if you live or die. It wasn't the doctors.

Hell, we don't even half to point our fingers at Canada for such outrageous BS. Here's how our own benevolent leader plans to take care of old people. NOTICE THE SOURCE, not Fox News or some other "right wing propoganda outlet" This is from ABC the state controlled media! Apparently when we're too old to help fund his grand social experiment he's just gonna give us some pain meds and call it good. Anyone who's actually up for four more years of this nonsense ought to have their heads examined.
Obama's Health Care Solution for Elderly - Just take a Pill - YouTube