Thread: Decline of the West

It's hard to predict things like this because something can appear on the horizon and change everything. Based on what I see worldwide I think the west is faced with huge challenges and we put ourselves in that position, it didn't just happen. Right now in this country society is in big trouble and the economy is terrible with no answers to either.

If our society goes the way of the Dodo bird we will have ourselves to blame.

What's difficult for me is that my Adult life and the '60's started together. Being in College during that Decade gave you a feeling that it was possible for Things to change, that all people could truly learn to live together, and that life could be truly something to savoy and enjoys. Some how in the next 50yrs we were able to turn all those thoughts to shit.
Boy did we screw it up.

Originally Posted by Johnus

What difficult for me is that my Adult life and the '60's started together. Being in College during that Decade gave you a feeling that it was possible for Things to change, that all people could truly learn to live together, and that life could be truly something to savoy and enjoys. Some how in the next 50yrs we were able to turn all those thoughts to shit.
Boy did we screw it up.

"This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius/Let the Sun Shine..."

Here in Australia, at the moment things are pretty good with a mining boom that has been and will keep going for some years. We have a labour federal govt, (socialist) which are doing there best to bugger it up with lots of help from the greens. We have let our manufacturing go to hell in a hand basket, and once we have eventually run out of stuff to mine and are living on a slag heap I am not sure where the next generation will be. we have enough mineral resourses to last some hundreds of years, but still. We are very much tied in with China, and later India, and there seems to be talk of major conflict in about 50 to 80 years between the two remaining hegemonies China and you guys. Global warming I see as a natural phenomena, whether man really has much bearing on it I don't know. I have an interest in archeology and not the rise and fall of a number of civilisations including some in meozoramerica due to rapid fluctuations in climate, sudden onset of long droughts. Greed, lust for power and self interest are alive and flourishing in both our countrys and I guess that is a fundamental law of human nature. I would be surprised to see the west collapse completely, but we may as someone said earlier peaks and troughts.


Cheers

heelerau

Originally Posted by heelerau

Here in Australia, at the moment things are pretty good with a mining boom that has been and will keep going for some years. We have a labour federal govt, (socialist) which are doing there best to bugger it up with lots of help from the greens. We have let our manufacturing go to hell in a hand basket, and once we have eventually run out of stuff to mine and are living on a slag heap I am not sure where the next generation will be. we have enough mineral resourses to last some hundreds of years, but still. We are very much tied in with China, and later India, and there seems to be talk of major conflict in about 50 to 80 years between the two remaining hegemonies China and you guys. Global warming I see as a natural phenomena, whether man really has much bearing on it I don't know. I have an interest in archeology and not the rise and fall of a number of civilisations including some in meozoramerica due to rapid fluctuations in climate, sudden onset of long droughts. Greed, lust for power and self interest are alive and flourishing in both our countrys and I guess that is a fundamental law of human nature. I would be surprised to see the west collapse completely, but we may as someone said earlier peaks and troughts.


Cheers

heelerau

Considering how much more you are connected to India and China economically... It kind of surprised me that you guys allowed the large US military build-up there. I mean I know Australia has been a great ally to the US, but you really are that much closer to China/India.

Was everyone ok with the US naval build-up there?

Yea, I think the west pretty much is in decline if you mean the standard of living is dropping. Don't really know if it is just a normal phase in a cycle or more permanent. The high standard of living the west enjoyed for the past several decades or more was propped up by ever increasingly easy credit to compensated for good decent paying jobs being lost through globalization. Who knows where it is going but I am glad I am not walking into this one as a young person. Anyway, just a personal opinion and like a certain body part everyone has one. Buckle up and enjoy the ride, not much else you can do.

Bob

Originally Posted by earcutter

Considering how much more you are connected to India and China economically... It kind of surprised me that you guys allowed the large US military build-up there. I mean I know Australia has been a great ally to the US, but you really are that much closer to China/India.

Was everyone ok with the US naval build-up there?

I reckon most people I know are ok about you blokes stationing your troops over here. You will get the lunatic left carrying on, but they are but a noisy minority, even though the greens have a lot of say in the current minority federal govt. We will be voting them out next year some time because even most of their own supporters are sick of them.
If it was not for you blokes during WW2 we would have been over run buy the Japanese. I guess now the reason Indonesia and India don't have a go is because we are backed by you. It has been a good alliance for both of us, I do realise the ordinary people do not have much say in matters of High Policy in either of our countries but your people both civilian and military are always welcome over here. I have visited the US and found the feelings are very mutual.
Once again I do think it is swings and roundabouts, so long as people can get reward for effort things will come good in time, for all our apparent decadance we are all pretty, to quote another chap in this thread, resilient bunch.

Cheers

Heelerau

I'm not sure why our US's relations with the British Commonwealth is not closer than it is. (The current boarder with Canada is an example of this. ) I'm not sure if it's we causing the distancing or the BC wanting to limiting their interactions with US. It seems that language and culture would have cause closer social and economic ties.

Originally Posted by Johnus

I'm not sure why our US's relations with the British Commonwealth is not closer than it is. (The current boarder with Canada is an example of this. ) I'm not sure if it's we causing the distancing or the BC wanting to limiting their interactions with US. It seems that language and culture would have cause closer social and economic ties.

Well, in Canada's case the US is still our biggest trading partner although that has shrunk in recent years. As far as the situation at the Canada/USA border, that is part of the security frenzy that has gripped both countries since 911. I can only speak for myself, but I think it is a juggling act to try and maintain a unique, separate and independent national identity while sharing a common language, culture and border when dealing with a massively powerful neighbour. I think both side have done pretty well in co-operating on things considering that as recently as the War of 1812 were at each others throats. We kept our independence and you got a new and better White House out of that mess. There is an old saying "good fences make good neighbours" and maybe that applies to countries too. Close is good but too close not so much.

Bob

As other folks stated, there are many kinds of declines. Economical, cultural (and i have no reason to be afraid of the decline of our ice hockey).
Surely some kind of decline in economy will come sooner or later. As in history, there will be major ups followed by major downs, and today it seems that we will end up in lower standards in living while rising powers (China, India) take their turn to rule the world.
We (the western culture) had our turn and we messed it most. Being rich and powerful culture never meant rich, civilized people capable of living together peacefully or justice for all. We could have done better. Could have done worse as well.
Anyways i do not believe in any quick changes, but rather slow decline, step by step.

I’m not afraid about quick cultural decline either. European culture has been an ongoing process for at least 3000 years. Nowadays i'm happy that some almost forgotten parts of Scandinavian culture and habits seem to rise again here. Sort of communality. Of course there will be changes but they are not to happen quickly but rather within generations.

I do not believe any major short time changes either. Things are relatively well, at least in northern Europe. Times have been better but far more worse as well. Here people remember too well what happened economic bubble about 20 years ago and nowadays most people understand that there are no shortcuts to economical happiness. Hard work is the way. Surprisingly even our major politicians seem to think so without promising moon and stars from the sky.

Now the same bubble seems to happen in southern Europe and this time we even have money to help them (at least so our politicians tell us). For how long, heaven knows.
Most people also seem to understand these days that we are not an island immune to what is happening elsewhere. What happens in a big world has effects here and that is more or less true with every single nation.

Anyways it is hard to to tell about the future as there will always be factors yet unknown affecting how the world goes.

Every now and the media and some minority politicians keep on drumming how bad we are really doing. It is their job and that is where they get their money and voters (luckily too not many this far). While being on my deployments years ago i really saw little shadows of what really happens when people stop talking and thinking and start blindly following their leaders and lower instincs. As a kid i also heard enough stories from a family members that had fought and seen the the times of civil war.
Keeping these in mind i really think we are not doing so bad.

Personally i’m not worried as long as i’m healthy. I’m old enough to be just ok with what i have. There’s no need to get more more stuff i really do not need. I have my old house, dogs and old wife (luckily she doesn’t understand English a word).
I only wish my kids would have the change to feel the same, in time.