Thread: Well, he died doing what he liked to do.

I took these photos when I was a 2nd year apprentice. The tall thin guy in the green shirt was one of the 3 best connectors I ever saw in 20 years of doing ironwork. I saw him fall 85 feet on September 20th 1972 at about 9:30 AM. He loved connecting but I know he didn't want to die there @ 37 years old.

Interesting discussion. I agree that "He died doing what he loved" is in fact more for the people the deceased left behind than the deceased himself. Death is a place that we're all going to visit eventually and the result will be the same whether we die of a heart attack mounted atop a 20 something hard body or we're hit head on by a drunk driver some night. At the end of the day, the circumstances involved can only matter to those that survive. Statements like the aforementioned or "he was a brave man who died for his country" only serve to paint someone's untimely death in a more palatable or nobel light. If in fact the deceased could ring into the discussion, I suspect in most cases, their preference would be to remain alive and keep doing the things they love.

FWIW, there IS a historical precedent for accidental str8 razor death. It indirectly resulted in what is without question a great American Novel Walden by Henry David Thoreau. Thoreau's brother John, cut himself shaving and later developed lockjaw and died Henry David Thoreau (second paragraph about half way down). Thoreau was very close to his brother and hoped to clear his head by spending some time on Walden pond. The rest, as they say, is literary history.

Is there any such a thing as "a good death?" Or any better way to die than another?

All of us die alone, at least in the last five minutes. After our eyes close there is still 4-6 minutes of oxygen left for the brain and the heart and when that runs out, you can only hope that you're unconscious and don't feel the heart starving for oxygen, cause that's just like a heart attack = pain. It doesn't matter who is holding your hand, you don't feel it any longer. You're alone.

I don't know how to respond to the tales of coming back from the dead with intact memories cause the brain hasn't got oxygen to collect memories. So they might not have been really most sincerely dead.

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

Is there any such a thing as "a good death?" Or any better way to die than another?

All of us die alone, at least in the last five minutes. After our eyes close there is still 4-6 minutes of oxygen left for the brain and the heart and when that runs out, you can only hope that you're unconscious and don't feel the heart starving for oxygen, cause that's just like a heart attack = pain. It doesn't matter who is holding your hand, you don't feel it any longer. You're alone.

I don't know how to respond to the tales of coming back from the dead with intact memories cause the brain hasn't got oxygen to collect memories. So they might not have been really most sincerely dead.

Good Death, absolutly,when you watch a parent die of terminal cancer after a two year battle,Thats a good death,for my mother and the family,Thats also going to a better place.
When blood flow to the brain stops you are instantly rendered unconscious, you have 4 minutes of Oxygen bound to the hemoglobin to keep the brain alive at Normothermic temps.During that 4 minutes you can feel nothing.

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

When blood flow to the brain stops you are instantly rendered unconscious, you have 4 minutes of Oxygen bound to the hemoglobin to keep the brain alive at Normothermic temps.During that 4 minutes you can feel nothing.

One of my former business agents in the ironworkers , was shot in the heart, assuming he really had one, and died. I have always wondered if he had time..... before the brain shut down..... to think about it. It was supposedly an accident with his 44 magnum no less, but I've never believed it was accidental.

There IS most definitely a good death, at lease in my opinion. My grandmother had been fighting brain cancer for about a year. For the last 6 months of her life, she was mostly confined to her bed. Could not walk in the least. I was over there every day and played piano for her. In the last two weeks of her life, she could not hold a coherent conversation with anyone. She was taking massive amounts of morphine to dull the pain of the cancer taking over. She died and the look of peace flooded her face. I would consider that a good death if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

Is there any such a thing as "a good death?" Or any better way to die than another?
All of us die alone, at least in the last five minutes. After our eyes close there is still 4-6 minutes of oxygen left for the brain and the heart and when that runs out, you can only hope that you're unconscious and don't feel the heart starving for oxygen, cause that's just like a heart attack = pain. It doesn't matter who is holding your hand, you don't feel it any longer. You're alone.

I don't know how to respond to the tales of coming back from the dead with intact memories cause the brain hasn't got oxygen to collect memories. So they might not have been really most sincerely dead.

Oh, yes there is. I've seen enough death to know there is.
As far as the dying alone part of your post, I think you getting a bit technical.
It's that "last" image or exchange that I consciously experience that I care about; I could give a damn about what happens when my eyes close.

Originally Posted by Hirlau

....As far as the dying alone part of your post, I think you getting a bit technical.
It's that "last" image or exchange that I consciously experience that I care about; I could give a damn about what happens when my eyes close.

Perhaps more philosophical, because I cannot experience what someone else goes through with their last four minutes. The individual may not interact with their environment but it does not mean that they are not aware for the time they have left.

The French, during the age of the guillotine, did experiment with the heads of those recently departed from their bodies. There is a legitimate question as to consciousness when the heart stops delivering blood and how long the brain activity continues.

The "horror" of the possibility that they are not unconscious and feeling pain is more than the average conscious person wants to accommodate, much like the discussion we are having about what the living say of the dead to ease their feelings about death.

I wouldn't ask such a question about good or bad death if I wasn't equally experienced. I am not a fit judge of either state and since people don't return from death there is hardly any proof to be offered. Perhaps my concern is more about how to ready any human being for their own death when the time comes. Then it may be possible to be satisfied with the life one has lived rather than concerned about the manner of death or what comes after.

In the end, we confront that fear alone, no one can go through that for us.

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

Perhaps more philosophical, because I cannot experience what someone else goes through with their last four minutes. The individual may not interact with their environment but it does not mean that they are not aware for the time they have left.

The French, during the age of the guillotine, did experiment with the heads of those recently departed from their bodies. There is a legitimate question as to consciousness when the heart stops delivering blood and how long the brain activity continues.

The "horror" of the possibility that they are not unconscious and feeling pain is more than the average conscious person wants to accommodate, much like the discussion we are having about what the living say of the dead to ease their feelings about death.

I wouldn't ask such a question about good or bad death if I wasn't equally experienced. I am not a fit judge of either state and since people don't return from death there is hardly any proof to be offered. Perhaps my concern is more about how to ready any human being for their own death when the time comes. Then it may be possible to be satisfied with the life one has lived rather than concerned about the manner of death or what comes after.

In the end, we confront that fear alone, no one can go through that for us.

This post I understand, and I'm with you,but I think this is not what the OP was about.

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

Perhaps more philosophical, because I cannot experience what someone else goes through with their last four minutes. The individual may not interact with their environment but it does not mean that they are not aware for the time they have left.

The French, during the age of the guillotine, did experiment with the heads of those recently departed from their bodies. There is a legitimate question as to consciousness when the heart stops delivering blood and how long the brain activity continues.

The "horror" of the possibility that they are not unconscious and feeling pain is more than the average conscious person wants to accommodate, much like the discussion we are having about what the living say of the dead to ease their feelings about death.

I wouldn't ask such a question about good or bad death if I wasn't equally experienced. I am not a fit judge of either state and since people don't return from death there is hardly any proof to be offered. Perhaps my concern is more about how to ready any human being for their own death when the time comes. Then it may be possible to be satisfied with the life one has lived rather than concerned about the manner of death or what comes after.

In the end, we confront that fear alone, no one can go through that for us.

Actually the french investigated because severed heads were chewing holes in the catch basket,This was before there was any understanding of electrical involuntary muscle contractions.