Quote Originally Posted by Mats View Post
By that logic we should ban any alcoholic substance, tobacco, cars, unhealthy foods, swimming pools, staircases, hard surfaces -- The list could go on.
Yes it could, and you know what? We are doing that. Implementation of security regulations on car manufacturers, more is done to reduce DUI, unhealthy foods are taxed heavier to promote the healthier varieties, regulations on pool owners to secure the area,.
Why for instance do we hace speed limits on our roads? To reduce the possibility for incidents.
So, as you see, law makers are implementing regulations on everything that represent a hazard.

Quote Originally Posted by Mats View Post
Yes, 54 children dead is sad, but it must also be put in context.
Relatively speaking guns are not a significant threat. Just because something is technically a hazard doesn't mean it's significant.
Example, if you're driving your car, you may be hit by a meteor that just happens to land exactly where you are driving, and kills you.
Unlikely, but it -can- happen. Getting hit by another car is an enormous risk and one of the most common ways to die in our society.

I propose that a gun responsibly owned and kept for self defense is infinitely more likely to be an asset to keeping a child's life safe rather than a hazard which could take it.
Now, here we are at the crux of the matter.
I wholeheartedly agree that a gun responsibly owned and kept represent a low risk for a child. Or any other for that matter.
Then again, the level of responsibility is where the numbers don't add up.
Guns kill a lot of people, clearly those guns are not then treated with the needed level of responsibility.
I don' t think all that many could argue they don't, the debate is wether or not the law-abiding,and responsible majority should as a result of a minority with bad habits, pay the price for their actions.
In my opinion, yes.

Sounds unfair right?
undemocratic even?
Sure it does, but that is the price we all pay each and every day for others actions in modern society.
Everything around us, like banks, retail shops and your local gas-station are made they way they are these days due to what others have done to those places in the past, or what someone might fear will happen. That imparts everyday life for everyone, and I accept that as part of modern life.

Quote Originally Posted by Mats View Post
Discussing deeply within the realm of hypothetical scenarios is tricky, but I'll go out on a limb and say that I personally cannot see how a firearm would be likely to escallate a situation. In fact it's key purpose is the exact opposite. I've been through the police academy, seen thousands of confrontation videos, read reports, talked to other officers, self defense instructors, FBI agents. I, and they had all had to pull their weapon, but never ever shoot it. Picture this situation: You are an agreesor approaching an individual with angry threatening words and raise your hands. He pulls out a weapon and aims it at you. Do you A: continue or B: stop dead in your tracks and turn around and run.

The only people I've seen or heard of going for option A are people who are heavily influenced by drugs. People, generally speaking, are very scared of getting shot.
Oh there are tons of situations where a gun present will escalate a situation.
Now, let's use me as an example, a burglar entering this home unarmed will meet me, also unarmed.
We have at it, he gets a good old beating, I call the cops and we are done.
Well, technically, I might be the one beaten up, and the one without a computer, watch and other valuables, but standing six feet five, weighing about 230 pounds and holding a 3Dan blackbelt , on top of my desire to protect my family and myself, he'd better be pretty good at what he intend to do to inflict harm my way

None of the above scenarios include anything worth getting killed for, nor becoming a murderer though.
The absense of guns will, imo, lessen the risk of any life getting lost in that scenario.
Oh sure, he could use a knife, a vase or any number of other household items to obtain that, but the crux of the matter is, gun presence add to mortality rates , no question about that, imo.

Quote Originally Posted by Mats View Post

Cool, I have two 1911's but both in 45 ACP.
Of course we have less of a need for defensive use arms here in Norway where poverty, violent crime and murders are very infrequent. BTW: Norway actually has the 11th most firearms per capita of any country, and sweden 10'th. (Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Comparing apples to apples is necessary to get an appreciation for the benefits of firearms posession for self defense.
When I lived in Arizona I lived in a decent neighborhood, but the neighbor town was very meth infested. That crime unfortunately bled out to our town. Anyways, during my stay there (only 6months) I had TWO people try to break into my apartment while I was still in it.
I happen to be a 6'2 190lb male in decent shape, who can fight okay, who also happened to be armed to the teeth. So when I pulled out my weapon and yelled "who the explicit are you? STOP" They both had mini heart attacks and scattered.
But what if I wasn't armed? maybe they had a knife or other weapon and decided they could take me? what if I was an unarmed woman? a single mom? Imagine the potential horrific outcome that could have happened from these scenarios under slightly different circumstances. Unfortunately those scenarios DO happen, daily.

edit: spelling
Yes, I seem to remember the volunteer shooting society up here represents the biggest number of members out of all volunteer activities, including football.
My brother is an avid hunter himself, he seems to enjoy that a lot. There are many like him in that regard all over the world I would imagine.

The 1911's was not what I was loking for to use as a sporting weapon in that club, but at the day I was to purchase one, a Israeli weapons representative from BUL was present and giving a demonstration of that 9mm.
A man more in control of his sidarm would be hard to imagine.
He impressed the heck out of me, and left no doubt as to what that gun would be able to do in the right hands.
So, a BUL I bought

As to that scenario, sure a gun might be just the ticket.
I'm also convinced that a gun present at the right time, and in the right hands has indeed saved lives.
No question about it IMO.

At the end of the day though, the obvious advantages of a gun at a situation like that does not outweigh the overall impact guns has on a society.

An armed society is a polite society is often used as a catch phrase for gun ownership.
To me that reads, an armed society is a fear ridden society with a few major problems to solve.