Thread: USA Gun Laws Poll

Originally Posted by BobH

Well, yes and no to that. It might be that but it almost seems too easy an assumption to connect those dots together. Too many other differences in attitudes, levels of poverty and education, more effective enforcement and so much more that could also make the difference.

Bob

As much as there might be some truth to that, were the stats to do a per capita with individuals with access to firearms - I am sure the picture would show something completely different.

@ BobH

Yes, it is about USA gun laws and firearm homicides fits well. Here we do not carry just to defend against criminal gun-wielders. Lots of us can get attacked by folks using all kinds of weapons, or none (strongarm robberies & multiple assailants); and we carry a gun to defend against almost any kind of imminent danger of bodily harm. We have a lot of gang activity which skews stats a lot, both overall violence and gun-only violence.

One other reason for higher gun violence is that, in my state for instance, we are allowed to use gun violence to defend ourselves or other innocent third parties. Obviously, there will be far fewer shots fired in defense in those countries that aren't allowed to defend themselves that way. I would like to see "legal gun violence" figures vs. "criminal gun violence" events; I haven't found a source for that yet. Still looking.

We just live in two different realities and circumstances.

Sticky

You might be interested in reading at least the introduction of this report http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-...e_2011_web.pdf . It says in part and I am paraphrasing here that the stats do NOT include deaths as homicides if they were justifiable according to that countries penal code or accidentally caused by stupidity. I think your theory is pretty well shot to ribbons by that. Pun was intended.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

Sticky

You might be interested in reading at least the introduction of this report http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-...e_2011_web.pdf . It says in part and I am paraphrasing here that the stats do NOT include deaths as homicides if they were justifiable according to that countries penal code or accidentally caused by stupidity. I think your theory is pretty well shot to ribbons by that. Pun was intended.

Bob

And that is why these numbers are a problem!! Good shoots are not recorded! So if a cop shoots a guy simply for holding a gun... and it's deemed a good shoot it doesn't make it to the record book!

That's a problem.

Bob, we are separated by a border though our continent is one. As far as our way of living as opposed to yours , we may as well be on another planet. The reason that the OP set the poll up for votes to display whether the voter was in the USA or not was because of this fact. It ain't a 'one world government' yet. Glad I'm too old to ever see that eventuality. Do your polls account for the hells angels of Quebec and the mass of killings ..... with guns... perpetrated by them back thirty years ago ? Illegal guns by Canadian laws. How many 'rampage killings' such as this most recent in Aurora, CO have occurred on Canadian or British Columbian soil in the past 40 yearsin spite of your gun control ? I vaguely remember that there have been some incidents. Inquiring minds want to know.

Originally Posted by BobH

Sticky

You might be interested in reading at least the introduction of this report http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-...e_2011_web.pdf . It says in part and I am paraphrasing here that the stats do NOT include deaths as homicides if they were justifiable according to that countries penal code or accidentally caused by stupidity. I think your theory is pretty well shot to ribbons by that. Pun was intended.

Bob

I don't have a theory. My stats all have citations, already supplied.

Countries penal code? They need to also say States' penal codes. Does your pdf say all criminal violent gun use is separated from legal violent gun usage? Doesn't look like it.

EDIT: your pdf says it's preferred source of information for the U.S. is the United States of America National police. We do not have a National police force. Maybe they mean the FBI? Probably not...

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Bob, we are separated by a border though our continent is one. As far as our way of living as opposed to yours , we may as well be on another planet. The reason that the OP set the poll up for votes to display whether the voter was in the USA or not was because of this fact. It ain't a 'one world government' yet. Glad I'm too old to ever see that eventuality. Do your polls account for the hells angels of Quebec and the mass of killings ..... with guns... perpetrated by them back thirty years ago ? Illegal guns by Canadian laws. How many 'rampage killings' such as this most recent in Aurora, CO have occurred on Canadian or British Columbian soil in the past 40 yearsin spite of your gun control ? I vaguely remember that there have been some incidents. Inquiring minds want to know.

Tons - this one hit home as it was next door to my mother in law - Timeline of the Bandidos massacre - Canada - CBC News

Look guys the United Nations report is for homicides/murders nor matter who does them. BC is part of Canada last time I looked. Yea we do have gang and drug related homicides/murders despite some pretty restrictive gun laws. I already said I did not think any more would help here. In spite of gang and drug related homicides/murders being included in the stats we and most of the other peer group countries wind up with much lower per capita homicide/murder rates. Yea, we are neighbors and share a continent and what and how the other side lives makes no difference to me personally. If you don't believe you have a problem compared to other similar countries, then you don't. As a neighbour I personally think you do but again so what, you are comfortable with what you have. We have much the same problems just on a smaller scale. The real why is any body's guess, yours being as good as mine. If it makes you feel any better I believe Stats Can says we have more B&E and auto thefts per capita than you do. Yea I know, if more people were armed here and the cost of thieving were a little higher because of that the incidents would decrease. Tell you what though, neighbours are allowed to disagree but if your house was on fire I would still lend you a hose. Nite all.

Bob

A knife wielding lunatic was stopped in Utah by a man with a gun. Stabbed 2 people, one in the guts and the other in the head. The man with the gun said drop the knife or I will shoot you. More guns less crime. Apparently the looney bought the knife in the Smith's grocery store and commenced to stabbing folks upon their exit of the store in the foyer. I think we need stricter knife control now. This proves it....Nearby me there was a looney in the Home Depot who repeatedly was harassing a man and following him around the store. Well the looney, after harassing this man, grabbed a hammer to hit the man he was harassing. The victim of the harassment pulled his legally concealed handgun and double tapped the "the hammer" in the chest. The man who got shot went to jail and the shooter went home. I love a happy ending. More guns less crime. I think hammer control would be nice as well. Would make me feel "safer".

This thread is starting to go like the health care debate. People in the U.S who think our system is the best in the world and other countries with other systems are horrible even though the population in general love their systems. So, the folks here find the exceptions to spin the facts. In the end their just making themselves feel good.