Thread: Tax the Rich

Originally Posted by earcutter

Oh - oh I have to jump in and agree with thebigspender wholeheartedly on this one.

Using your examples:

Healthcare - kind of a moral question I guess, but if you think that private insurers haven't behaved poorly - read the news. American's get screwed on a daily basis by private firms. And though many might not care - the world laughs at America and it's claim to superiority when it has child mortality rates the likes of poorer nations in Africa.

Maybe not:

Health Care 101: The truth about health spending in America - Health - AEI

"Many of the international comparisons of health outcomes are deeply flawed. The U.S. currently ranks 43rd internationally in infant mortality. Unfortunately, no consistent standard exists for reporting infant deaths across countries. Preterm birth (that is, births at less than 37 completed weeks of gestation) is a key risk factor for infant death, yet the United States is one of only eight countries that categorize extremely premature infant births as "live births," despite these babies' very low odds of survival. Specifically, "many nations do not report any live births at less than 23 weeks' gestation, or less than 500 g, despite the presence of vital signs." This may sound like a minor reporting difference, but a Philadelphia study found that when all deaths of infants delivered at 22 weeks' gestation were excluded from its birth statistics, that city's measured infant mortality rate declined by 40 percent.

The aggregate statistics also mask this important reality: if we categorize births by length of gestation, the U.S. ranks second, third or fourth as compared to major European countries, in that it achievesthe lowest infant mortality rates for every birth category examined prior to full-term (22-23 weeks, 24-27 weeks, 28-31 weeks and 32-36 weeks). Only Norway and Sweden (whose populations are much more homogenous and physically fit than America's) achieve consistently better results."

Let the world laugh at that.

Originally Posted by honedright

Maybe not:

Health Care 101: The truth about health spending in America - Health - AEI

"Many of the international comparisons of health outcomes are deeply flawed. The U.S. currently ranks 43rd internationally in infant mortality. Unfortunately, no consistent standard exists for reporting infant deaths across countries. Preterm birth (that is, births at less than 37 completed weeks of gestation) is a key risk factor for infant death, yet the United States is one of only eight countries that categorize extremely premature infant births as "live births," despite these babies' very low odds of survival. Specifically, "many nations do not report any live births at less than 23 weeks' gestation, or less than 500 g, despite the presence of vital signs." This may sound like a minor reporting difference, but a Philadelphia study found that when all deaths of infants delivered at 22 weeks' gestation were excluded from its birth statistics, that city's measured infant mortality rate declined by 40 percent.

The aggregate statistics also mask this important reality: if we categorize births by length of gestation, the U.S. ranks second, third or fourth as compared to major European countries, in that it achievesthe lowest infant mortality rates for every birth category examined prior to full-term (22-23 weeks, 24-27 weeks, 28-31 weeks and 32-36 weeks). Only Norway and Sweden (whose populations are much more homogenous and physically fit than America's) achieve consistently better results."

Let the world laugh at that.

No - that sounds like a HUGE difference! And one I can throw in the face of my wife's midwife friend who works at the WHO... who always loves throwing that stat out at me!! .

Do you have a link I can shoot her way? It would literally make my day to be able to show her those numbers lol. In case you haven't figured it out - I don't like her and her America bashing much LOL!!

I got the link - sorry - I got excited lol. Thanks.

Originally Posted by earcutter

I got the link - sorry - I got excited lol. Thanks.

Don't get too excited American Enterprise Institute - SourceWatch.

Bob

Yeah thanks Bob - arg - I was getting excited. I posted the link on my Facebook page asked if anyone knew the source - the first post came from my undergrad Econ prof:

I'll only draw the ire of your conservative friends (YES I DO HAVE CONSERVATIVE TENDENCY'S GUYS LOL), but the AEI is an organization with self-admitted free-market bias. Do you notice they don't ask the question--"What about the 50 million (mostly working poor) people, including 8 million children who don't have coverage? What will we do about them?"

And then it blew up... great way to blow an afternoon debating though lol!!

When you can't attack the message, attack the messenger....

I don't think you need to judge that article by the source - I think it's enough to just read it and check the sources inside. There is no serious research in there, just plenty of assertions.

Originally Posted by gugi

I don't think you need to judge that article by the source - I think it's enough to just read it and check the sources inside. There is no serious research in there, just plenty of assertions.

Check the hyperlinks

Originally Posted by honedright

Check the hyperlinks

The link under "Don't Americans have a much lower life expectancy than those elsewhere?" was a power point that didn't list it's sources. Sigh.

Originally Posted by honedright

When you can't attack the message, attack the messenger....

Well sometimes the messenger is the message. I'll grant there are damn few balanced messengers around these days. Sometimes the stink just won't wash off and that goes for both sides.

Bob