Thread: Twinkie for your thoughts

Originally Posted by HNSB

I appreciate what the unions did in the past.

All modern unions have done for me is take my money and send me mailers telling me who to vote for.
I was a member of USWA and then SEIU. I have nothing good to say about either of them.

One nasty union SEIU.They ruined two hospitals I contracted with.I was a sub-contractor,crossed there picket line at 3 A.M going in for an emergency heart case.
Was spit on, cursed and physically pushed,they are a bunch of morons.

Originally Posted by earcutter

The truth of the matter is, if it wasn't for unions, we here in America would never have achieved the standard of living that we have! If you don't believe me - read a little history.

That is the truth. If you want an example of what it would be like if there were no unions read about what is going on now in factories all over the world. The Triangle Shirtwaist factory all over again. Remember Nike ?

This standard of living referred to, A.K.A. "the American dream", only began for the majority of folks in the USA after WWII, and AFAIC only lasted into the 1990s, the labor unions had a lot to do with achieving that short lived dream. OTOH, there is no doubt that boom times and the contracts that labor and management agreed to during those times are not tenable in today's world.

I can't wholly blame management for the offshoring that helped kill the goose that laid the golden egg.... i.e. American manufacturing. The government regulations and taxes would drive any company that could out of the USA. OTOH, many of the regulations, which most of the countries our factories have gone to, don't have safe or 'good' working conditions. So many of the regulations are about the safety and quality of life for workers.

For most outfits I worked for in 20 years of union ironwork it was "don't worry about the mule, just load the wagon."

The irony of unions


They are great for the workers....

However

The countries that the western world is competing with for manufacturing doesn't have them...


The solution is rather simple, but not one politician has really said it... Tax the bejezzus outta imports until it evens the playing field...
If you could buy "Home Made" product -vs- a Chinese made product for the same price which would you buy ????


Until every country allows unions and things are evened out, then Unions are a bad thing, once the playing field is even, then Unions become a good thing again..

Glen --
Good point about tariffs that no one has mentioned.

Glen, to be clear: You want to increase the cost of living for everyone in the US and then give that money to the government?

Originally Posted by mapleleafalumnus

Glen --
Good point about tariffs that no one has mentioned.

Tariffs go against everything outsourcing is about! Try getting a multinational co. to support the gov on that one!

Originally Posted by HNSB

Glen, to be clear: You want to increase the cost of living for everyone in the US and then give that money to the government?

^^ he kind of has a point ^^

Though Glen's idea isn't as bad an idea as one would think - the problem is Americans... rich Americans are the ones doing it to the rest of us. Those rich american's also support gov. campaigns... sigh.

Originally Posted by leadduck

I'm hoping for a govenment bailout. Although, Little Debbie is a less expensive alternative.

Why not?
We had "Cash for Clunkers."
How about "Dollars for Ding Dongs."

Originally Posted by HNSB

Glen, to be clear: You want to increase the cost of living for everyone in the US and then give that money to the government?

Simple math

You cannot create Western Jobs to compete with Asian labor and Pay Union Wages and Debilitating Government red tape, it just won't ever happen.. and there is the truth of the BS that both sides of the asile are forcing down yer throat...


There is no get the "middle class working again", not in any Manufacturing... not until you can even the playing field..


BTW what would be the problem of moving that Tariff straight to the 16T in debt we owe China anyway either way it would effectively change the playing field/equation and without a game changer nothing can change regardless of who is steering the car I know this is highly simplified for this discussion and there are many issues but sooner or later we will have to make a drastic change to our trade laws

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Simple math

You cannot create Western Jobs to compete with Asian labor and Pay Union Wages and Debilitating Government red tape, it just won't ever happen.. and there is the truth of the BS that both sides of the asile are forcing down yer throat...


There is no get the "middle class working again", not in any Manufacturing... not until you can even the playing field..


BTW what would be the problem of moving that Tariff straight to the 16T in debt we owe China anyway either way it would effectively change the playing field/equation and without a game changer nothing can change regardless of who is steering the car I know this is highly simplified for this discussion and there are many issues but sooner or later we will have to make a drastic change to our trade laws

Not to be an... but remember America was/is the big-boy on the block, and those trade laws are and have been mostly created to be advantageous to American firms. Sure China has fought back and now is in the position to create trade laws in its favor, but the fact of the matter is - they are beating us at OUR own game. It would be hilarious, and maybe one day in historical context people will laugh, but in the mean time, people are seeing a revolution of sorts that is strikingly painful to their pocket books.

This is all sold to us by telling us to buy mutual funds and 401K's - and win doing so. That's fine if you have a job that allows you to save a little bit. Many do not - more will not soon.

Fighting via tarrifs has been beneficial to America in the past. Very beneficial... just ask any Canadian about the softwood lumber depute between the two nations. The problem is and this is KEY - though America is still the largest single market out there - other markets are big enough that it's becoming irrelevant! On high priced items sure - we all want America - but the best products are cheap disposable ones and those friends - make more money in brick nations.

Heck even country's like Canada - America's largest trading partner no longer feel the fear of it's wrath! The whole pipe-line issue would have been enormous in the past! Now Canada is like ok, whatever, we'll build the pipeline to our coast and sell it elsewhere! This is not cool!

Interesting discussion.

Rich americans are often hated by the poor and those who wish to help the poor. There seems to be a desire to tax them at an unfair level. Fair is when every man plays by the same rules, regardless of income.

What many seem to forget is that the rich tend to employ the poor. Employment is preferable to welfare. Well, at least for many of us. I am employed by a rich american, at a decent living wage. No union involved. I am willing however to to the work that is not glamorous. But I am willing to do the work.

As for Twinkies, they are only gone for a short time. It seems obvious that another company will buy the brand and continue to make the wonderful little blond cakes. People will be put back to work.

It may be however, that they will have to find new ways to earn a living. That is one of the great things about the human condition, we adapt, we learn and we grow.

jeff