Thread: 01 Steel.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Ball bearings will be 52100....clipped...This also makes it a very annoying steel to work....

Not all ball bearings. But 52100 is, and will always be, a fickle mistress requiring time and attention. I do not recommend this steel except for the experienced smith or a maker who is willing to be very careful with the heat history of the blade and a likewise careful heat treater.

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

Not all ball bearings. But 52100 is, and will always be, a fickle mistress requiring time and attention. I do not recommend this steel except for the experienced smith or a maker who is willing to be very careful with the heat history of the blade and a likewise careful heat treater.

IIRC William Scagel, one of the pre-eminent knife makers of bygone years used the ball bearing steel, of one kind or another, in the olden days. Used to forge blanks out of the bearings, not just a billet of the same stuff ......... unless I'm mistaken.

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

It's not everyday that a 17th century antique sword is chopped to bits to make a razor. I'm certain there are any number of nihonto collectors who have chest pain, even as we speak, feeling the death of such a blade in this manner. Bruno is in a small club of daring souls.

To quote our mutual friend 'You cannot kill what is already dead'
But yeah. When I asked for help to identify the smith using the mei, people pushed to know more and seeing the sword (after giving me an earful about the audacity of touching the nakago with sandpaper ). Some people found it cool. Some other people nearly stroked. And the latter group a) did not understand how I was able to buy it after my intentions were explained to the Japanese collector, and b) 'dared' me to come over nihontomessageboard and repeat what I'd just said.

I have the impression that this is a very sensitive topic for many people. To quote Terry Prattchet: "I've given that viewpoint a lot of thought, sir, and reached the following conclusion: arseholes to the lot of 'em.' "

Originally Posted by Bruno

... 'dared' me to come over nihontomessageboard and repeat what I'd just said.

Yup. They are a pretty fearless bunch because they live outside the world of steel. I have been called nihonto tosho by a genuine nihonto tosho in front of a crowd of the message board dwelling types, while I was filing away at a koto era sword tang during a sword show. I almost was escorted from the show because the same smith encouraged me to swing one of his grandfather's O'dachi through a few cuts. There are several of us who wear his application of that title with modest affection.

But, according to some, I can never be tosho. Even if I had the paperwork, and I do not have enough life left to pursue that learning curve, there would be some criticism from within Japan and the rest of the world that I did not have the right DNA or my blades tasted funny.

"If any man thinks he knows anything, he does not yet know as he ought." a loose paraphrase.

The work will speak for itself. Masters recognize respect for the craft no matter the culture or language.

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

I have been called nihonto tosho by a genuine nihonto tosho in front of a crowd of the message board dwelling types,

Mike ...... you didn't have to take that from him ! ........... ...............

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

"If any man thinks he knows anything, he does not yet know as he ought." a loose paraphrase.

This is so true of any craftsman, there is always room to learn no matter how good you are...

To get back the the original question, 1095 aint too bad either. Logical questions are, is it readily available, easy to work with, and easy to heat treat without a lot of very expensive equipment. And, can you hone it in a reasonable amount of time and it will hold an edge. Nuf said.

O1 is not that cheap especially if you are buying precious ground flat stock. It is also not a beginners steel like others have pointed out about 52100. it is a very good carbon tool steel for sharp pointy things and high quality O1 is readily available in all sizes and shapes.. With that said, the kitchen guys would tell you that one of the best reasonably priced carbon steels for taking a very fine, stable edge is 52100, but with the caveat that you austenize it at the lower 1475 temperature as opposed to the "industry standard" temps used for bearings. Big, abrasion resistant carbides are great in a two inch ball bearing, but not so great in a fine cutting edge.

Actually, 1095 is not that easy to heat treat without a lot of equipment. A eutectoid steel like GOOD QUALITY 1084 will be relatively easy to HT.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

IIRC William Scagel, one of the pre-eminent knife makers of bygone years used the ball bearing steel, of one kind or another, in the olden days. Used to forge blanks out of the bearings, not just a billet of the same stuff ......... unless I'm mistaken.

Perhaps, but guys like William Scagel and Frank Richtig probably fall into that "you will probably never be able to do what they did with the gear that they had even if you knew how they did it" category.