Thread: 01 Steel.

Here is another difference with the knife world: we are not really into wonder steel. Some people have worked with more exotic stuff, but for razors it is pointless. Complex steels all add properties that are important for knives, such as toughness, strength, etc. But razors don't need any of that because they are short and thick and the only thing they'll ever cut is human hair.

52100 for example is silly for razors. It's not bad steel. But in terms of hardness or keenness, it doesn't add anything over O1 because razors are not subject to much strain. However, the fact that 52100 is extremely wear resistant makes it much harder to grind. Ditto for niolox (SB1 I think it is called in the US). They're harder to work and don't add anything that is useful for razors.

In fact, a beginner here once paid a lot of money to have razors made from SB1, M42, and something else I think. We advised against it, but he reckoned that modern steels would be much better than O1 and 1084 for example and had them made, and then had senior people here test them. The conclusion was that they were almost impossible to get shaveready, and shaved very harsh.

My current "stock" consists of 2 types of 1084 (old stock Schrade 1 by 1/4 and newer Aldo stuff), 15N20, W2, O1, Cru Forge V, 5160, a little bit of AEB-L, CPM 3V, one piece of 115W8 and some crappy leftover Admiral 1075.. Is the 52100 silly in its normal form or all-around? i ask because it is a bit different when done with the lower 1475 temp. How do the brethren like simple damascus like 1084/15N20 mixes? Sounds like they are okay with good quality 1084. this might be a chance for me to tap into my small hoard of that old Schrade stuff. It is the right size and the "spine is already rounded. A lazy mans dream, even for a metal pounder like me.
By the way, don't sell human facial hair short. Years ago, I read that cutting dry human beard hair is almost like cutting copper wire.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Here is another difference with the knife world: we are not really into wonder steel. Some people have worked with more exotic stuff, but for razors it is pointless. Complex steels all add properties that are important for knives, such as toughness, strength, etc. But razors don't need any of that because they are short and thick and the only thing they'll ever cut is human hair.

52100 for example is silly for razors. It's not bad steel. But in terms of hardness or keenness, it doesn't add anything over O1 because razors are not subject to much strain. However, the fact that 52100 is extremely wear resistant makes it much harder to grind. Ditto for niolox (SB1 I think it is called in the US). They're harder to work and don't add anything that is useful for razors.

In fact, a beginner here once paid a lot of money to have razors made from SB1, M42, and something else I think. We advised against it, but he reckoned that modern steels would be much better than O1 and 1084 for example and had them made, and then had senior people here test them. The conclusion was that they were almost impossible to get shaveready, and shaved very harsh.

Copper wire isn't all that hard to cut, especially at hair thickness. If it was, razors would be dull after a single shave.
It's nice that you have several special steels but for the purpose of razors, just forget about them.
Even 52100, for the purpose of razors, doesn't do anything that O1 doesn't do. Except make your life unnecessarily hard.

I suggest you choose something you can easily get, be it O1 or 1084 or W2, and start making things.
Your first work might shave, but there will be plenty of issues because a razor is not just a knife. Don't waste good steel on a learning experience. And personally I suggest O1 for the simple reason that heat treating is easily doable without tech, and oil quenching is a lot less error prone than water quenching.

Then make more razors, taking care not to make the same mistakes you made earlier. Repeat this many times. By the time you can make the result look like what you had in mind and you can make nice hollow grinds with narrow, even bevels... then think about other steels if you should be so inclined. First learn to bake a cake, then worry about the cherry on top.

I use oil to quench everything. The BIG learning curve that I am worried about is the grinding of razors!!!! Quite a bit different than knives and such.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Copper wire isn't all that hard to cut, especially at hair thickness. If it was, razors would be dull after a single shave.
It's nice that you have several special steels but for the purpose of razors, just forget about them.
Even 52100, for the purpose of razors, doesn't do anything that O1 doesn't do. Except make your life unnecessarily hard.

I suggest you choose something you can easily get, be it O1 or 1084 or W2, and start making things.
Your first work might shave, but there will be plenty of issues because a razor is not just a knife. Don't waste good steel on a learning experience. And personally I suggest O1 for the simple reason that heat treating is easily doable without tech, and oil quenching is a lot less error prone than water quenching.

Then make more razors, taking care not to make the same mistakes you made earlier. Repeat this many times. By the time you can make the result look like what you had in mind and you can make nice hollow grinds with narrow, even bevels... then think about other steels if you should be so inclined. First learn to bake a cake, then worry about the cherry on top.

Originally Posted by JDM61

I use oil to quench everything. The BIG learning curve that I am worried about is the grinding of razors!!!! Quite a bit different than knives and such.

If your not already shaving with a straight, start. Buy a few vintage (nothing pricey) and get use to shaving, honing, just using one in general. That will be your best guide to making a razor.

Thanks. Any suggestions as to brands, age, etc?

Originally Posted by MileMarker60

If your not already shaving with a straight, start. Buy a few vintage (nothing pricey) and get use to shaving, honing, just using one in general. That will be your best guide to making a razor.

Boker is always good. Genco, Geneva, Case, any Swedish razor, ...look in the Classifid Ads here for starters...

Blade width/spine thickness ratio.... the blade width should never exceed 4 times the thickness of the spine.

The acceptable ratio range is 3.5:1 up to 4:1
This results in an angle on the bevel that is neither to thin nor to wide ( which results in a weak, chip prone edge).

Originally Posted by randydance062449

Boker is always good. Genco, Geneva, Case, any Swedish razor, ...look in the Classifid Ads here for starters...

Blade width/spine thickness ratio.... the blade width should never exceed 4 times the thickness of the spine.

The acceptable ratio range is 3.5:1 up to 4:1
This results in an angle on the bevel that is neither to thin nor to wide ( which results in a weak, chip prone edge).

Originally Posted by MileMarker60 View Post
If your not already shaving with a straight, start. Buy a few vintage (nothing pricey) and get use to shaving, honing, just using one in general. That will be your best guide to making a razor.

Two super answers and great advice. I wish I had something smart to say.

Charlie

Originally Posted by dickerydee

I think using vintage or repurposed steel, japanese, swedish etc might be cool.

This thought crosses my mind when I see wind chimes made of razors. NOT that the wind chimes aren't cool, just thinking.

I would suggest you try different grinds after you use one awhile. Knowing all the little intricacies will help your thinking while your making your razor. Flash Gordon spiked spines look cool but if it's a pain to strop.....keep it :<0)

I think it would take some special mixture for razor Damascus. "n" is nickel ? How much is in the edge? Wouldn't be good there.

I am still in the slowly playing mode but learning a lot from these guys.

Thank you, sir. So a 5/8 blade would have a 3/16 or so spine and the big wide 7/8-8/8 would have a 1/4 inch? Also, does that ratio vary any when you are talking about a "true" wedge grind and opposed to the hollow ground blades?

Originally Posted by randydance062449

Boker is always good. Genco, Geneva, Case, any Swedish razor, ...look in the Classifid Ads here for starters...

Blade width/spine thickness ratio.... the blade width should never exceed 4 times the thickness of the spine.

The acceptable ratio range is 3.5:1 up to 4:1
This results in an angle on the bevel that is neither to thin nor to wide ( which results in a weak, chip prone edge).