Thread: Best Stainless for Razors ?

I saw the zKnives site (came up early on a search) and had to take a look cause he was new to me. It's a very busy place. I'd be interested in his source materials but could easily write it off as a typo.

There is so much other rich reputable data out there to look at, that one reference isn't enough to swing me away from what I thought was fairly correct memory. I really really wish Hitachi would publish simple data sheets like Crucible and so many others.

I'd say niolox. But really, carbon steel is still best and i am glad the steel fad never really caught on

Originally Posted by BobH

As an interested outsider, why not just use the stainless steels current manufacturers use unless they are not obtainable? They have been proven over time to work well. As an end user I personally don't care what type of stainless steel is used. So far all the vintage stainless steel razors I use, including an old George Ibberson Firth Stainless, shave very well.

Bob

Because most knife steel is not great for razors, are a bitch to work, and difficult to hone.

Also a choice for steel is always a tradeoff and a good knife steel is tough and strong and abrasion resistant. Qualities which are not required for razors and usually come at the price of not getting as fine and smooth an edge as carbon steel

Originally Posted by Bruno

Because most knife steel is not great for razors, are a bitch to work, and difficult to hone.

Also a choice for steel is always a tradeoff and a good knife steel is tough and strong and abrasion resistant. Qualities which are not required for razors and usually come at the price of not getting as fine and smooth an edge as carbon steel

Sorry, I should have said "current manufacturers of straight razors use" . I realize that knife steel needs and has different properties than steels needed for straight razor production. I mean they have been making stainless steel straight razors for at 80+ years now so it should not be all that mysterious. That is unless of course the makers have been keeping it an industrial secret for that length of time.

Bob

I see. In that case it is a matter of availability. Steels may no longer be available or only available in impractical amounts.

For example i think that O2 is the best carbon steel possible for razors. Several us professional knifemakers agree with me. But O2 is simply not made anymore in the us, which is why you don't see othets usong it. In the eu it is still available.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I see. In that case it is a matter of availability. Steels may no longer be available or only available in impractical amounts.

For example i think that O2 is the best carbon steel possible for razors. Several us professional knifemakers agree with me. But O2 is simply not made anymore in the us, which is why you don't see othets usong it. In the eu it is still available.

I once did a small scale comparison between O1, O2, and 52100 with local friends. No one of them could tell the razors were made of different steels, just me, so I guess we makers tend to think there is more difference between steels than in reality. But at least most of the end user can't feel the difference.

Putting that aside, I would say forged O2 was my favourite out of the three. Unfortunately it is only readily available for me in 3mm thickness.

As a maker, I can definitely tell the difference between those 3 during the process of making a knife.

O2 is much harder to anneal, but a nice steel to grind and dead easy to HT.
O1 is easier to anneal and a bit harder to HT.
52100 is horrible to grind post HT.
And I did some side by side hand sanding of O1 and 52100 kitchen knives. 52100 took at least twice as long at each step.
I also notice a difference when honing a razor made from those materials.

That said, I agree that as people who work with steel we probably make a lot of importance on differences that are probably not so big as we imagine them to be. However, I got a lot of feedback about the tool steel I use for my razors without telling in advance how I thought it would compare to O1, and often times I get the remark that is hones up easier and takes a smooth edge more easily, while at the same time having great edge retention.

If one follows Roman Landes and Paul Verhoeven's arguments then you need small carbides for edge retention at fine edge angles. This means low enough carbon to reduce carbide size and enough carbon to het hard enough not to just crumple at small edge angles. This means 420 hc and 440a... same-ish thing but during HT you HAVE to reduce retained austinite and do it very carefully...

Steels made for razors are aeb-l and 13c26n... 14c28 and the old 12c27 should be good too... their carbides are tiny and you can get 60+ Rc out of them with the same care as above 14c28n you readily get in thicker stock, aebl and 13c26n not so much... i would vote for aebl and 13c26 if you can get it thick enough... grind post ht and keep cool also you must stress relieve before ht as it will warp readily. Especially with some grinding before ht...

I have given up on 14c28n... i just cant get the heat treaters to do right by it. Once i have my own oven i might try again... if not done right it forms heay burrs and it folds the edge at rather high supposed hardness.

Where can you get thick 14c28n? Never found anything even near 4,5-6mm needed for razors.

I don't know about the others, but I have used niolox (SB-1) as razor steel. You can get it from Achim in Germany