Thread: Best Stainless for Razors ?

Ok, this may be controversial, but I will yes and no.
Yes, if you want to max out on a specific hardness, it needs special HT. Special, as in more difficult than carbon steel.
However, I HT it like normal carbon steel, but a bit hotter. And I get consistent 59.5 HRC as verified by Mike Blue, with a very fine grain structure.
So I say no, if 59.5 is high enough for you.

And as you say, it can be bought in 6.5 mm which makes it ideal for making razors.

There's a few makers in America using it and here in south africa i can get what is sold as 14c28n in up 3.2 and 4mm... there are rumours about provenance... but some people get it to behave as it should...

P.s. bestar makes their own steel with niobium called be-cut... and that is available in single sheets and a variety of thicknesses. It is not the same as niolox, but knowing bestar it would be quite good. Niobium inhibits grain growth during overheating and i think might make for smaller carbides in the process. Not sure about this though.

I have found niolox to be EXTREMELY good at inhibiting grain growth during overheating.
I have broken several blades quenched at different temperatures just for the sake of establishing just how easy it is to heat treat.
Most people here tell me I need a vacuum oven or salt baths to HT niolox, but when I did some experiments, I found I could consistently HT it to 59.5 even when quenching at higher temperatures and long soak times.
In every blade I broke, the grain was so fine you couldn't see it

Becut has more niobium and less carbon... if you quench it faster i suspect it will get harder than bestar sheets... only reason for concern with all these are retained austinite after overheating and no subzero quenching. That messes with fine edge stability. I would sub zero even if i austinized at lower temps...

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

I don't mind a discussion. Just so we are both on the same page, show me the reference materials you are using, please.

Here's mine: http://www.crucible.com/PDFs//DataSh...54cmv12010.pdf It is of some interest that Crucible neglects to mention minor alloying elements like vanadium and tungsten.

Well, crucible never returned my email, but the maker behind zKnives did, and he sourced Niagra Specialty Metals, (a cpm distributer) as his source, as they state a 0.4% "Max" of both elements in 154cm (cpm or other).
Niagara Specialty Metals: Knife Steels
He also states that he will update the app to reflect that it is a "Max" threshold, not necessarily a requirement. He also noted that when he inquired about it they told him it was unintentional trace amounts present, but some knife makers believe it is intentionally left out of the details because it makes the steel harder to machine.

Fwiw.

0.4% is actually quite a lot. 0.4% of tungsten and vanadium each, would have a noticeable impact on the abrasion resistance of the steel when machineing it.

That's what I said, considering the alloy elements in different steel often vary in fractions of percentages, adding 0.4% of 2 different elements vs. Zero all but makes a completely different alloy...

My guess would be, as an official Crucible distributer, that Niagra Specialty has their own spectrometer, and detected the elements present at least in certain batches (leading to the "0.4% Max" designation), before posting it on their website in contrast to Crucible's own posted official data sheets? Idk for certain, but just weird for such a discrepancy...

It could be a ladle contaminant from batches of other steels. As long as the major ingredients "meet spec", the minor ingredients somehow don't count to the metallurgical engineers, or the sales staff.

I guess I can appreciate Niagra's, um, honesty in labelling. But why publish specifications for a material they purchased from the manufacturer that are different? If you advertise another company's steels because they are a good reputable supplier, why say what you are buying from them, then reselling, appears to be a different material? I begin to wonder what I'm not being told by either party.

OTOH, the following skeptical doctrine in my shop practice will always apply. I can say from experience, and from watching/learning from other smiths, that minor alloying elements can make a big difference at the edge of a blade. Some of us have acquired the habit of treating even correctly paint marked, brand new-direct-from-the-company-untouched-by-human-hands-undiluted-provenance-records-paper-trail-and-all, steels as mystery material until we've made something from it and heat treated it ourselves.

That does make sense since they do run enough vanadium and tungsten alloys these days, that if a batch were be contaminationed by either, or both in small amounts, I could see it happening to an alloy like 154cm.