Thread: Shout out to all the SRP gurus

Originally Posted by Razorfeld

Steve1150, here is a long time member in your area:

Moosiker (Atlanta, Georgia)

PM him and set up a meeting and see if he can give you your shave ready edge. That way, when you get around to trying it on your own you will know what that edge should look and feel like. If he isn't available to hone it for you look in the members services in the Classifieds for any number of reasonably priced honers to do it for you. You have enough to contend with in just mastering a decent shave to worry about honing at this early stage of the game.

Thanks for the tip. It took me a while to figure out how to look up the member to send the pm but i finally found it. Fired off a PM and hoping for a friendly response. Thanks.

DMT, and also diamond paste is not to everyone's liking. If you are a minimalist, try lapping film.
" Misinformation " here is swiftly de-bunked. The Norton 4/8 k is a good starting point, and highly recommended, will last the average user a life time.
gssixgun has possibly done more experimental shaves than you have had actual shaves, so maybe read more and comment less.
BTW those scales look clunky, the originals were so much better...

No I have not used that DMT. I just think that the Norton or other brand hones would serve you better in the long run. You will still need something to fill the gap between bevel set and 8k. For a new honer the DMT will be unforgiving as they cut fast. Most honers use DMT's to lap and create slurry. Maybe someone who has used the 8k DMT will chime in. I have not read of anyone using a DMT to finish or prefinish on.

Originally Posted by Steve1150

"read" all what? I'm a minimalist, just trying to figure out what my next purchase needs to be to get met to the next step. Honestly it sounds like a small microscope will be in the shopping cart along side my next hone. But right now I'm only trying to equal the edge on a disposable straight blade. The perfect finished edge will be a later goal. Unless you think the Van Der Hagen Ice Tempered disposable blades I'm using now are better then a 3 micron hone will be on my project razor. In that case I might need to expand my next step. I have searched for that very topic and found none. Do you have any thoughts on the relative edge of the disposable blades to the various degrees of refinement obtainable with the various methods discussed?

After hours of reading hundred of opinions regarding stones and pastes, I am certain of only one thing. There is a great deal of misinformation regarding abrasive particle size vs spacing! Yea, a great deal! So anyway all theory aside I would be very interested to hear if you have personally tested the DMT D8EE in comparison to the Norton 4000/8000? The real world result is what most interests me. I'm sure you have probably come across this post before. Unless this is a DMT rep or someone with some other bias, his write up seems fairly objective. Is he missing or overlooking something critical?

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...arison-Results

Yes I have honed on DMT's through 8k, there are very few SR honing systems I haven't at least tried, some quite extensively

No I would not ever consider them (DMT's) a SR hone EXCEPT at the below Honing level edge restoration levels like I already said

Yes I could tell you all about how DE edges compare to SR edge (search the Vorheaven paper )

I could tell you more about hones and their reaction to SR's then most people want to hear about, in fact I can talk your ears off about it.. Most of that is already written here in thousands of threads and posts about honing...

But like many newbs you already have an "Idea" of what you think is correct

Let me give you the best advice about honing you are ever going to get to make for the easiest path

Buy a set of Naniwa SS hones

1k
3k
8k
12k

Buy a DMT 325, Trend dual grit, or Atoma 400 to keep them even and clean

Learn to hone with these, until they get boring and the edges are freaking awesome then do what you want after that..


Now that was the nicest thing I can do for you... That comes from not only my own honing experiences but from teaching literally hundreds of people now over the last 8 years in person..

Perhaps you did not thoroughly read the B&B post. (Rating = C+)

Yes, you can hone on diamonds, but there are issues, what makes diamond attractive, the aggressiveness is what makes the edges uncomfortable, aggressiveness.

You can hone on diamonds, then kill the edge and re-set the edge on a find finisher or paste.

Or you can, as you asked finish completely on a paste progression, problem is you have to have master stropping a razor, there is a learning curve…

If you want minimalist, try an Ark, 3 stone progression. Been used for hundreds of years and still is. Hard to beat an Ark edge with pretty much anything new or old. Or an Coticule one stone slurry progression.

Many roads to Rome.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Yes I have honed on DMT's through 8k...
...
But like many newbs you already have an "Idea" of what you think is correct
...

Man I hope I'm not coming off as disrespectful to you. I have mad respect for where you are coming from! I don't doubt that your way is near, if not the absolute best way to play with razors. But the reality is I simply don't have the cash to setup your way right now. I just don't. So I have to find a way to get the absolute best bang for the bucks that I do have. Challenging the status quo is usually the most effective method of achieving this. So it's from my curiosity and determination that I ask these question, not disrespect.

To explain my level of determination in action I am currently shaving arm hair with a kitchen knife coming off one of my DMT 600 25 micron stones and a brief polishing on a discarded pair of jeans. No angle guides, totally free-hand, and no pastes. Theoretically I'm creating an edge that measures < 50 microns with a grit particle of 25. That's not supposed to even be possible and I was told dogmatically by many that I was not going to be able to pull that off. But I'm doing it and have been for some time. I'm starting to think that maybe some of what I know about using DMT products is less common knowledge then what I had expected.

The only "idea" that I really have stuck in my completely newb head that I'm not willing to give up, is that when I move from a 25 um to a 3 um grit particle, I will be able to take that edge significantly further then shaving arm hair. Beyond that, I'm just looking forward to finding out what happens. This is fun for me so by all means talk my ear off. But just know that guys who say "yes sir" "yes sir" "yes sir" are not usually learning even as much as you are telling them. Oh I was looking for the "Vorheaven paper" you mentioned. It sounds like something I need to read, but I can't find it. all I'm getting on google actually is other SRP posts from you referring to it. . Do I have it spelled correctly?

I am truly gratefully that you have been willing to share your knowledge with me. Don't think I'm not reading those thousands of posts. I've clocked over 20 hours this week alone on SRP reading everything I can find. But opinions change as new information surfaces and it seems that few ever take the time to go back to their old posts and update their opinions. There is no substitute for current discusson, so thanks a million.

PS
I'm still curious how you feel my baseline of those disposable razors fits into the hierarchy of edges. If you were trying to imitate those razors would you even polish at all?

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Perhaps you did not thoroughly read the B&B post. (Rating = C+)

Yes, you can hone on diamonds, but there are issues, what makes diamond attractive, the aggressiveness is what makes the edges uncomfortable, aggressiveness.

You can hone on diamonds, then kill the edge and re-set the edge on a find finisher or paste.

Or you can, as you asked finish completely on a paste progression, problem is you have to have master stropping a razor, there is a learning curve…

If you want minimalist, try an Ark, 3 stone progression. Been used for hundreds of years and still is. Hard to beat an Ark edge with pretty much anything new or old. Or an Coticule one stone slurry progression.

Many roads to Rome.

Of course i read the entire post. "C+" is a better grade then "C" which is what he gave the norton 4/8k. That is the point of interest, he is claiming that the DMT may actually produce a better result. So is he wrong? Or is it possible that his technique is better suited on the DMT where others have techniques that are better suited on the Norton. That is where my real question lies.

Getting lost on the way to Rome is the best way to discover the best bath houses!

Originally Posted by Hacker7

No I have not used that DMT. I just think that the Norton or other brand hones would serve you better in the long run. You will still need something to fill the gap between bevel set and 8k. For a new honer the DMT will be unforgiving as they cut fast. Most honers use DMT's to lap and create slurry. Maybe someone who has used the 8k DMT will chime in. I have not read of anyone using a DMT to finish or prefinish on.

I know you are ultimately correct in stating that I would be more likely to be happy in the long run with the Norton setup. I just don't have the cash. It's either find a viable shortcut or put off my shaving journey while I put together the funds. That might be quite a while. So my current plan of attack is to bridge the gap with lapping film. There are dozens of people claiming success with them.

Originally Posted by Grazor

DMT, and also diamond paste is not to everyone's liking. If you are a minimalist, try lapping film.
" Misinformation " here is swiftly de-bunked. The Norton 4/8 k is a good starting point, and highly recommended, will last the average user a life time.
gssixgun has possibly done more experimental shaves than you have had actual shaves, so maybe read more and comment less.
BTW those scales look clunky, the originals were so much better...

I'm still waiting for the misinformation regarding grit spacing and grit size to be debunked.

Of course the scales look clunky, they morphed out of a 2x4 scrap that had previously been used to doodle on with a dremel. LOL what else could have been born from a rookie doing something so odd. Oh yea here is my entire tool list for the job.
1 circular saw upside down on the floor with the safety cage wired open
1 kitchen knife modified for whittling
and 1 dremel with a grinding wheel. hahaha

But the interesting thing is that the original scales (which were not install correctly and therefor not usable) weighed in at exactly 12 grams. My replacement ones weigh in at 4 grams so relatively speaking the old ones actually felt more clunky then my hack job.

PS I hope I didn't hit a nerve for you. That's painful and not my intent. All I ask is that when two expert's opinions disagree that they are both able to defend them. The information should speak for itself no matter where it comes from.

They make wet/dry sandpaper up to 2k, it can be a pain (you can easily cut the paper) but it does work and it will do less damage than a DMT which is very aggressive. I have a 325 DMT that only comes out to lap soft hones or fix frowns or chips.

If you use sandpaper just wet it and fold it around a brick or something else flat and stable