Thread: Putting things into perspective, or why some reviews make me sad

I like a well written and intelligent review as much as anyone. OTOH, only allowing experts in style and substance to do a review would not be good for the atmosphere of the forum IMHO. As a mod I once found a review so poor that I pulled it and sent a PM to the OP advising him to rewrite it or post in the appropriate forum if he couldn't write a decent review. As with any moderating on this forum the move was discussed with senior mods and not just done on my own discretion.

I digress, if we are an inclusive forum than anyone should be allowed to post a review in their own words according to their skill in self expression. The rating system is a very valuable tool and I think it should be programed so that the review cannot be posted without it being filled in. Robin's guide to how to write a good review is also a valuable tool but I don't think it should be compulsory. Comments should be in a separate forum IMO as they do more to distract me than a poorly written review. Just as I skim and skip a poorly written post in a thread I'll do the same in the review section. YMMV.

Hi Robin,
Speaking as someone who likes a good rant ,this is a humdinger!
I have to say you do make a good point in that reviews should be informative,meaningful,comparative,etc-but I fear you have used overkill in the delivery which has pushed the thread into contention.( by that I mean the criticism of the "style" of writing)
It is interesting to see how this has divided people as they either side with or against you in this respect.
I agree with your basic premise but find that I side with members who enjoy reading threads from all ranks of members from beginners to SRP developers.There is ,I agree,a marked difference between a product review and a simple comment on a favourite product.
Perhaps only senior members upwards should be able to post product reviews but I have found from one of my previous posts that SRP membership is far too complex to start segregation as there are far too many variables of experience and expression to consider.
I have never visited the reviews sections before ,so I hotfooted it to the reviews and read a few.I can see how an experienced reviewer like yourself could be frustrated by some of the threads but it is this simple enjoyment of a new discovery that makes these threads worth reading imho and as someone else commented the value of each thread is clear to any adult reader.
If you wanted to clear away these amusing, elementary reviews then I fear you may have done your job only too well ,for I for one would hesitate to make any product review under your fierce and critical eye.Which is a shame.I wonder how many others you may have warned off who may have had a valuable review to make.
I enjoyed your rant all the same.

Kind regards

Noggs

I enjoy a well writen review as much as the next person. However I would be the last person anyone would want to read one from. I get lost trying to write a paragraph on 1 aspect of a single topic...

As stated above reviews can also go wrong as the person reading it may have a totally different mindset to the writer and find the review a piece of crap, just because of how it's percieved.

I dunno how you guys did, but I do like to read reviews here as a base to help me decide my next purchase, like any review there's good and bad, a detailed review might help, but over subjective review might contain more information but then more like to confuse people...I read reviews a lot, good and bad, any style, if I thought the review is bad I pass them, if the review is good I wouldn't dig in it, but take it as another point to my confidence over a product.

I did not have a guts to write reviews not because I scared, but because I don't want to feed people with misleading information or decide something for others, I envy those who has the guts to post review or just share the love....sometimes I saw a review without a rating and 1 or 2 simple sentence, with a bit confuse me, but maybe it's just me...

Originally Posted by MrBoker

The purpose of any forum is to exchange information, ideas and opinions. Reviews are totally subjective regardless of who writes them.

That is a non sequitur, and the second statement is misleading. Any review that puts a product into proper perspective is qua defintionem less than totally subjective. Additionally, we have taken great care to only give those criteria ratings that are actually measurable. As an example, take Craftsmanship of a razor: quality of goldwash, straightness of scales, grind, etc. All these can be measured, and compared. There is a very good reason why purely subjective features such as "shaveability" or "scent" do not have ratings here (but, interestingly, elsewhere).

Originally Posted by MrBoker

What works perfectly for me may not work at all for someone else, and as adults, we should all understand this.

There are only few ratings that fall into this subjective category. Even "latherability" (soaps/creams) is something that can - within limits - be sensibly measured.

Originally Posted by MrBoker

If you don't like someone's posts, then don't read them. If you don't believe someone is qualified to write a product review, then don't base your buying decision on their review.

This would assume that any beginner is able to make an informed decision about either of these posts from the beginning. Experience has, however, shown that this is not the case.

So, I can see the point you are trying to make. But your argument assumes that all our reviews are in fact subjective. They are, however, not. Truly subjective reviews, however, will indeed dilute that information. Whether you choose to ignore that is, of course, your decision. But what about the unsuspecting new joiner...?

Not to beat a dead horse but ... we allow anyone who agrees to obey the rules to join the forum and post their thoughts in their own words. Some of us are better at expressing ourselves than others. I am sometimes irritated by a couple of posters who apparently don't utilize spell check and garble sentences. One of them could rival the famed Navajo code writers of WWII.

The thing is that we are, sort of, a democracy. At least we are in my mind. Every horse cannot win the race but they can run in it and do the best they can. If I read a crappy review I don't stay long. As far as reviews go..... on another forum, in my first year, I read a review on the Kent BK4 by the owner of that forum. He said it was luxurious and raved about the properties of the brush. I read another review by an experienced member who had the large TI horn badger brush.

I bought a Kent and found it soft and floppy and not to my taste at all. I tried to like it, using it a dozen times, before I finally sold it. The reviewer of the TI absolutely hated the brush and said so in his review. He said it couldn't generate lather on a puck and was a poor performer all the way round. He put it in the BST and I bought that very brush because it was a TI and natural horn. If nothing else it would be cool to display with my TI razor collection. Got it at a great price. I love the brush and have never had it fail me. Different strokes and all of that be it a new guy or an experienced reviewer their impressions on a product may have value. One way or the other it is always subjective and a YMMV situation.

Originally Posted by MrBoker

Personally, I think someone needs to lighten up. The purpose of any forum is to exchange information, ideas and opinions. Reviews are totally subjective regardless of who writes them. What works perfectly for me may not work at all for someone else, and as adults, we should all understand this. Sniping at people because you don't believe they are qualified to state their own opinion or because you don't like their writing style does not aid in a free exchange of ideas.

If you don't like someone's posts, then don't read them. If you don't believe someone is qualified to write a product review, then don't base your buying decision on their review. But don't publicly mock them in an open forum. I personally enjoy seeing how excited some people get about discovering a new hobby. I believe the purpose of this forum is to foster that excitement, not ridicule it.

Regards,

Mark

Mark,

You raise some interesting points and I applaud that. However, I disagree with your premise. You see, at some point, a forum has to make a collective decision to be relevant or not. If we expect to be the most valuable resource for all things straight razor related on the internet, there are standards that must be adhered to. This has been the decision of this forum (and the reason that it is what it is), and there is a reason that when people want information they come here.

Enthusiasm is absolutely great, and there is no way that any of us want to stifle that. However, reviews are meant to be meaningful. If a new person wants to review something, that's ok, but they need to fully disclose their frame of reference.

Regarding the comment that if you don't like someone's posts, you don't have to read it... well, that's specious. 1) How can you know if you don't like their posts without reading them? 2) Letting bad information go completely unchecked is not the way to promote having the best information available. Yeah, it's easy to not point out the flaws of an argument or get involved in contention, but letting someone new to the scene read bad information (or in this case worthless reviews) is doing them a disservice, IMHO.

I'm not picking on you, but just had these thoughts when I read your post. I'd encourage you to remember that this is the oldest wetshaving forum on the internet, and many of the older (in terms of tenure) guys here have been around since it was just a simple Yahoo! group. They wouldn't continue to hang around and talk about this stuff if they were into stifling the enthusiasm of others and didn't really enjoy a good discussion of this hobby.

All the best!

Robin and Paul,
Points taken. I never thought of it from the perspective of a new person getting bad information based on a bad review. That makes sense. And since this is the oldest shaving forum on the web, it is also obvious that nobody is trying to suppress anyone's enthusiasm.

Have a great day gentlemen,

Mark

Mark,

Many thanks for this. As I said in rant point 4: "But what about the readers?" Enthusiasm is great! I thoroughly enjoy reading excited (and often exciting) beginner stories. I also do what I can to help beginners. For me, this also means providing them with the most accurate, most up-to-date, and particularly most objective information available. Hence my plea to "put things into perspective". Nothing more, nothing less: make the review relevant, make it informative, make it broaden people's view - but most of all, make it fun to write and read.

Regards,
Robin

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I am sometimes irritated by a couple of posters who apparently don't utilize spell check and garble sentences. One of them could rival the famed Navajo code writers of WWII.

Eye yam sorry bout that Jimmy. Eye'll try two do beter.