Thread: Oops I attempted to carry a straight razor onto a plane!

Josh, here's a word of advice in dealing with the legal system even if it's a Highway Traffic Act violaton. Do NOT admit to anything. Take the ticket, ignore/avoid the questions politely and then review your legal options. They got so greedy in Ontario, together with the insurance industry that will put you on facility after getting two-three 3mph over the limit tickets, that they clogged up the court system. Many cases get thrown out because of our constitutional rights to a speedy trial. However, they're stretching the constitutional limits more and more. It used to be 6-8 months for a traffic infractions and some judges are allowing up to 14! Then they're trying to eliminate your right to face your accuser by allowing video testimony from the constable! Fortunately, our legal establishment is good and there's always someone willing to fight to protect the spirit and the letter of our Charter of Rights and Freedoms from rape, even if it's pro bono.

Originally Posted by JLStorm

I have found that if you are polite and confident, defending your rights works quite well. I have never had a major problem, but I admit when I am in the wrong, even if I get caught speeding (which is VERY rare),

Is that because they can't catch up with you.

Originally Posted by JerseyLawyer

The only problem with that response is that in the "real world" it's likely to be followed by, "Please step out of the car, sir." The question is always whether you're willing to go to court to vindicate your rights, or whether it's easier to just give in and get it over with.

Also remember that if the police have a reasonable suspicion that "criminal activity is afoot" they can briefly detain you to investigate, and if they have probable cause to believe you're guilty of any crime, they can arrest you. So, I don't know, if you're parked in a handicapped space, look out. :P They can talk to you, and ask for your consent to a search, with no suspicion at all. If they've arrested you, they might be able to search your car, either as a search incident to lawful arrest or under the automobile exception. New Jersey has limited the former with regards to cars, but it depends on your jurisdiction.

So, like many things, "it depends." I wouldn't consent to the search either, but then realize there's at least some chance they will do it anyway.

Although I tend to agree with you from a practical point of view, the only reason the police do this is that they know they can get away with it and that you'll want to avoid a hassle. From defending people treated improperly I can also confirm that the only way you'll resolve that kind of thing without a proceding in court is by agreeing that the police had probable cause, before they'll dismiss any charges (summons etc.).

I'm a practical guy, but what I've seen going on lately has hardened me. The authorities and our leaders are now taking a lot of liberties with our rights. I remember that old movie where a guy shouts out of a window "I've had it and I won't take anymore." That's where I am now. They seem to forget that they're my employees, not my boss. And my thinking is that if anything like that happens to me I'll assert my rights. After all, I can make it inconvenient for that idiot cop by forcing him to come to court and, if I'm angry enough, to answer my questions on the witness stand. If enough of us did that, we would be respected more, and so would our rights.

One thing that turned me around was when a friend and I were discussing recent telephone spying by the government and my friend said "come on, what do you have to hide?". This is an intelligent guy, and I suddenly realized how bad things had gotten.

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

My problem with this is that it's a slippery slope that's all too real. An incident happens, some lunatic kills 50 people, the media starts a panic, a politician capitalizes on it and fuels it to get a few extra votes and then proposes an invasive measure. Soon enough I start hearing "if you have nothing to hide, you don't have anything to worry about." Well, I never stole even a stick of chewing gum, if I kicked somebody's a** it was always in self-defense, my life's squeaky clean other than a few speeding tickets but I still wouldn't consent to arbitrary anal probings and cameras in my house and car even if they think i'm the killer's best friend and accomplice.

That "nothing to hide" is so incredibly stupid. All of a sudden, there's a stigma attached to asserting your constitutional rights and insisting on privacy.

My response to my friend was "then I guess you'll be sending the governement all your bank statements and medical records."

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

Do NOT admit to anything. Take the ticket, ignore/avoid the questions politely and then review your legal options.

That is the best advice without a doubt.

I'm glad we agree on this one Joe. I lead a fairly open and transparent life, but it's a CHOICE. I'd like to have this choice instead of it being imposed on me by law. I don't automatically follow authority either, so if a constable expects me to give up my Charter rights just b/c he's wearing a badge, he's in for a polite rude awakening.
By the way, that does not mean that I do not cooperate with the police. If I come across a safety concern that they should be dealing with, ofcourse I call the 22nd division and let them know.

You guys are right, but I gotta tell you, I have been pulled over for speeding twice in the last 5 or 6 years. Both times I simply said I know I was going to fast, etc, etc...I was just honest about it, because I knew I didnt have the time or desire to fight about it in court, and both times the cop ended up letting me go. I believe its because I was easy to deal with and didnt play dumb. If there was a violation that I was willing to fight over in court I would do exactly as you describe, luckily it hasnt come to that though.

Here in Ontario, he will write down your exact words and use them against you in court. No matter how nice and helpful you are, you'll end up with a ticket (unless you're female and a looker). The scary part is that they wrote tickets without me committing a violation (like the time when I got ticketed for driving in the commuter lane which I went into so I could turn into the parking lot. I even had stubs from that particular lot to prove it, but the whole unit was going on vacation so they had to fill their quota). Both the municipal and the provincial government are greedy for the ticket revenue so they'll step all over you and your Charter rights to squeeze that cash out of you. The insurance industry is in on the racket as well. With every moving violation that you get, they raise your insurane rates. That's why traffic units get donations of latest radar/lidar technology from the insurance industry. Since they got deregulated, they started putting the squeeze on the consumer as having insurance is mandatory.
When you go to court, you are fighting the insurance industry, the provincial government, the municipal government, the court system and the cop, all of which are financed by the money they take from you. The only things protecting you are your Charter rights. Use them!

I have a friend in pennsylvania who is a state trooper and ALWAYS gives the good looking women tickets, but lets the ugly ones go. I always crack a smile when I think of him giving the hot large breasted blond her first ticket, and the look on her face when she realizes she didnt get out of this one lol!

Originally Posted by JLStorm

I have a friend in pennsylvania who is a state trooper and ALWAYS gives the good looking women tickets, but lets the ugly ones go. I always crack a smile when I think of him giving the hot large breasted blond her first ticket, and the look on her face when she realizes she didnt get out of this one lol!

That reminds me of the scene in "Cannonball Run" when Adrienne Barbeau gets pulled over, zips down her top, rolls down her window, only to be confronted by a female officer, who says something to the effect of "You can put them away, they won't do any good this time"!

RT