Thread: Help with JNAT

Stefan, that's a great idea. My expectation was set by the reading around that I've done which suggests (and in some cases comes right out and says) that there are not yet any commercially available abrasives that are as fine as the finest jnats. That, and I once witnessed what was for me a legendary feat.

I had the privilege of witnessing a distressingly old japanese carpenter do some work. Specifically, he was shaving endgrain off of a cypress log with a block plane. This is something I know a lot about, and I can promise you that there is simply not a more rigourous test of sharpness than shaving endgrain off a conifer and leaving a deep, glassy surface. A western blade sharpened at 8k is 'so good'. Sharpen that blade on .1um diamond film, and it's noticeably better. By 'noticeably better' I mean you can take a somewhat thicker shaving and still get that glassy finish. A good japanese plane blade is noticeably better than those two.

This carpenter however, was taking shockingly thick shavings. He was taking shavings you just simply cannot get using the above methods without leaving a not so great surface. But he was taking these incredible shaving AND leaving a surface that looked like it had already been shellaced and laquered. Those of us watching were just dumbfounded. Every 5 or 6 strokes, he'd pull out the blade and go to his natural stone--a stone that for all the world looked like flat top doorstop.

I know woodworkers that can sharpen better than I on artificial materials. They can't do that. I want to do that: that's the grail. If I can get that edge, chances are I'll lather up face, look in the mirror, pick up the razor, and my beard will just say "ah...what's the point" and fall right into the sink without any further ado!

I'll read the smoothnesspost directly!

Stefan, thanks for the insight!

To the OP, when you asked gssixgun if he meant the feel of the shaving edge, as opposed to the scratch pattern when he mentioned smoothness ..... as Stefan said above, we are going for sharpness with that smooth feel to the shave. Early on in my straight razor shaving I was fortunate enough to be able to shave with razors honed by a variety of top notch honemeisters.

At the time, on SRP, there were members whose focus was a polished bevel. They wouldn't go up in grit (stones) until they had removed the entire scratch pattern from the previous grit. Seeing firsthand the work of the aforementioned honemeisters, I knew that scratch pattern wasn't the criteria. The sharpness/smoothness (for shaving) that the razor attained was the goal. IMHO.

Originally Posted by jgjgjg

Bill, thanks for that advance on the scope and naturals. If you like film, you should go to Tools for Working Wood: Welcome and pick up the .1 micron diamond film. So far, I have not found anything that sharpens better. What I want is to get better than that, however.

Film is utilitarian to me. It puts a good edge on but you are limited as the film can tear and scratch. I dont want to be stuck doing straight laps. With a hone you can do many different strokes and the hone is always its grit as oppossed to film which wears out. And its a pride of ownership type of thing. I dont regret buying any of my hones. Its a hobby that I enjoy.IMO my best film edges have come off 1 micron. Below that I have found to be harsh and fragile. YMMV.

Bill, I concur. This is the other reason I want an alternative to that film. It gets cut and torn to easily. But until I find that alternate...it's the bomb.

Originally Posted by mainaman

.. So in a sense the size of the abrasive particle is not all that goes into the edge performance and feel as far as shaving is concerned.

+1 to this.
I find grit size to mean very little. Some of the very small abrasives are very hard and will leave a "toothy" edge, whereas larger, rounded abrasives will give a smoother edge.

Originally Posted by jgjgjg

Bill, I concur. This is the other reason I want an alternative to that film. It gets cut and torn to easily. But until I find that alternate...it's the bomb.

First shave off the suehiro gokumyo 20k. Its as good as any film edge Ive ever had and this is the first one i honed. Set on chosera 3, then 5,10 and suehiro 20. 40 webbing 60 roo strop. Perfect. 2 pass and little touchup bbs.

Originally Posted by str8fencer

+1 to this.
I find grit size to mean very little. Some of the very small abrasives are very hard and will leave a "toothy" edge, whereas larger, rounded abrasives will give a smoother edge.

Interesting observation. Brings to mind what I've read about the coticule. The garnets are sort of large compared to the abrasives in other stones, and the shape, rhomboid IIRC, lends itself to giving a more gentle and forgiving edge than some other hones.

Originally Posted by str8fencer

+1 to this.
I find grit size to mean very little. Some of the very small abrasives are very hard and will leave a "toothy" edge, whereas larger, rounded abrasives will give a smoother edge.

I think you're right. Wife and I had a long conversation last night, and as usual I needed something for my hands to do. So I got the stone and a blade and absentmindedly circled it around the stone for I don't know how long. Shaved with this morning, and OH MY! Whether the secret is time or slurry I don't know, but I'm pretty happy now.