Thread: les latneuses coticule or Thuringain?

I have no idea what the science would be with a coti and an escher not being compatible. I do however wonder why you would go from a finisher to a finisher. I am under the impression that you are wanting to use these hones as finishers. You can one stone with a lot of the naturals. Not all Eschers are the same. I have a blue Escher, with label so it is an Escher not a random Thuringian, and it is so slow that it would take a long time to one stone with it. I know a lot of coti guys do one stone, but most others, although you technically can one stone, go up a little way before they use their finisher. There are sort of two things about a hones. Speed and fineness. If you have both one stone is quick and easy. Most stones lack one side or the other. There's my two cents.

P.S.
The hand has a lot to do with the final outcome.

Most of what I do is not bevel setting. I have set a bevel on a coticule and it was a long process, especially on a smiling barber wedge. I don't have other stones. I was not wanting to finish from one stone to another. I was wondering if I got a Thuringain since my razors are all set on coti would it be a problem when it needed touch up to than go to Thuringain? I do realize that not all of one kind of stone are the same. That is why I also tried to narrow it down with a coti type and when I say Thuringain I do not mean Escher. I mean a newer Thuringain from the same quarry that the Escher came from.

Sorry I have been looking at stones and these are the questions that came up. I can get a Thuringain for alot less money and much easier to get than a les latneuses coticule. I do love the way the les latneuses looks and the fact that it has two different sides making it more like two for one even if the price is more like 3. So basically I narrowed my search to these two and wanted others real world experience with these and if anyone had gone back an forth with them with no problems.

Ok. Well that makes way more sense. I was very confused, but that happens easily. I cannot for see a problem. If you are touching up an edge it should make no difference what was previously used on that edge. So many activities here are very subjective and you cannot definitely say. I have not tried it myself but I would do it.

IME a thuringan is a finisher. In fact, I was taught to only use it with a razor that was already shaving well at at least the 8k level. As far as one or the other, I've had good ones in both les lat, and thuri. For a finisher I'd give the edge (no pun) to the thuringan. YMMV.

Used correctly, a Les Latneuses will provide an excellent shaving edge. It *can* be used as an all-in-one hone (the one I have can be pretty fast on slurry). However, using a progression to get to the pre-shave-ready edge is faster and more reproducible.

At that point the Les Lat will produce a lovely shaving edge. It differs somewhat from the edge a good thuringian produces, but that's a 'qualitative' difference in the feel of the shave (IME).

I have both, and I cannot pick one that I prefer - sometimes I like one, sometimes the other.

Originally Posted by yohannrjm

Used correctly, a Les Latneuses will provide an excellent shaving edge. It *can* be used as an all-in-one hone (the one I have can be pretty fast on slurry). However, using a progression to get to the pre-shave-ready edge is faster and more reproducible.

At that point the Les Lat will produce a lovely shaving edge. It differs somewhat from the edge a good thuringian produces, but that's a 'qualitative' difference in the feel of the shave (IME).

I have both, and I cannot pick one that I prefer - sometimes I like one, sometimes the other.

Just for the record (although I think you know, Yohann, but others may not be aware of this), Les Latneuses are actually three coticule layers, hence the plural s. There is the so-called 'hybrid' layer sandwiched between a (generally speaking) fast (on slurry) creamy layer and a (generally speaking) slower (on slurry) creamy layer. I have used all of these, and all of them give a very comparable edge.

And if we're talking about the MST/Müller Thuringians (they are Thüringers, as they are from the Thüringen area), I've not had the pleasure of using one myself, but I've heard both "not much different from vintage Thuringians" and "definitely inferior to vintage Thuringians". Presumably they will put a shaveable edge on a razor, but the nuance may be something to argue over. But again, I have never used one. They're not very expensive, though, so I might consider at some point. Just to try.

I've used an MST thuri, and they are not similar to vintage thuris. I'm not thuri buff, but I've used three. The MST thuri was a prefinisher, I'd not have another one for free.

As for cotis and thuris in general, if I had a coti that made a similar keenness of edge, I'd just use it without the thuri. Many don't, thus I'd follow the coti with the thuri (of escher type or similar vintage) if that provided a better edge.

There aren't too many hard and fast rules other than that in shaving, there's no great reason to use a finer stone before finishing with another one that degrades the edge.

There's no incompatibility between coti and thuri edges. Only when going from a brash cutting artificial to a synthetic do you have to make a lateral move (i.e., skip from an artificial middle stone to a natural middle stone before going to a finisher because the artificial abrasive leaves much deeper rows/stria).

Originally Posted by Pithor

And if we're talking about the MST/Müller Thuringians (they are Thüringers, as they are from the Thüringen area), I've not had the pleasure of using one myself, but I've heard both "not much different from vintage Thuringians" and "definitely inferior to vintage Thuringians". Presumably they will put a shaveable edge on a razor, but the nuance may be something to argue over. But again, I have never used one. They're not very expensive, though, so I might consider at some point. Just to try.

Years ago Russell Baldridge, a honemiester on SRP from back then, did a review praising a particular Müller Thuringian, and I picked one up from a member for $50.00. A 6"x2 1/2" IIRC. I followed the method Russell had posted, and the stone was pretty good. It was not up to the level of my Escher and I sold it shortly thereafter.

OTOH, Tony Miller, the strop maker, used to stock and sell Müller Thuringians. He told me that he stopped carrying them because too many of them had hard inclusions. So the quality varied. The one I happened on was a good one, inclusion free, but apparently some of them were not as good. I don't know what is going on with the vendor, or his stock, at the present time. I guess you pays your money and takes your chances.

In messing around with coticules and thuringans I've used a coticule to sharpen, followed with a thuri to finish with good results. Used a Norton 4/8 (after setting the bevel on a 1k) and followed with a coticule, and/or a thuringan. Just experimenting with different combinations. In general it was all good.

Originally Posted by Pithor

Just for the record (although I think you know, Yohann, but others may not be aware of this), Les Latneuses are actually three coticule layers, hence the plural s. There is the so-called 'hybrid' layer sandwiched between a (generally speaking) fast (on slurry) creamy layer and a (generally speaking) slower (on slurry) creamy layer. I have used all of these, and all of them give a very comparable edge.

Thats one of the nicer examples beeing a "les Latneuses" stone beeing three layered...

Originally Posted by rideon66

I mean a newer Thuringain from the same quarry that the Escher came from.

Can you elaborate on this? It sounds like a familiar false claim from a certain webshop.