Thread: Dragons tongue(8-10K) and purple llyn melynllyn(12k)

Originally Posted by nicknbleeding

There is nothing wrong with them as finishers. When we tested them we shaved off of every stone

Are you still using it? New hone enthusiasm is a bad thing that happens to all of us.
Some of the old yellow lake stones came close to being finishers. The newer ones usually aren't. Both the dragon's tongue and purple yellow lake are in their majority very close to Belgian blue stones in all aspects of honing. And I haven't tried many "15k" belgian blue stones.
On the other hand, it's personal preference what is and isn't a finisher.

Been a while but I also have a Few too many hones. The dragons tongue create an extremely sharp edge is few strokes. Everyone has their preferred way. If I'm in a hurry and don't have time to play I stick with nanawa. But the Welsh slate can be a fine combo and finisher. linen and leather or crox also

I must admit that I tend to agree with Vasilis.

I used to sell these hones - a lot of them, too as I had an agreement with the Inigo Jones company. I tested every one I sold. My estimate of a grit rating on the best ones was around 9k, but a lot of others fell in around the 6k to 8k mark. Whatever, I considered them as not quite a finishing hone, unless you used something like chrome oxide after honing.

The main thing was that the surface on them from the quarry, although flat, was milled a bit coarsely, so this had to be lapped off with a 325 grit diamond hone which improved the stone enormously, and a 600 grit plate made it really quite fine. The ones I used were lapped with different grits on each side. Also, you need to be somewhat adept at honing, or the edge is not what you think it would be.

As for the purple slates, I have tried a lot of old vintage ones in boxes and set in paddles, all the Salmen types (except the dark grey which is a different stone entirely and a finisher for certain) multiple times and a lot of the freshly quarried ones. I can honestly say that not one of them came anywhere near 15k. Maybe 10 0r 11k, but that is pushing it, and some of course come in below this.

In fact the person who sold them on Ebay usd to ask my advice, but then he came up with these nonsensical grit ratings. I know that some people jave used them and think that they are the bees knees, never failing to sing their praises whenever the opportunity arises. Me? - I also take the opportunity whenever I can to try and put the matter in perspective with regards to my own numerous experiences of these hones.

In the end its just a lot of peoples personal experiences combined with how they prepared the various stones, the changeable nature of natural stones, how coarse their beards are and how adept at honing they are. Too many variables to take any ones word, including mine.

Regards,
Neil

I never accepted the grit rating either. I just experimented with then hones. I think for the cost they are wotrth the money. Holy grail? Never but a reasonable set of hones

Assigning an approximate grit rated to most, if not all natural stones is an exercise in futility and these are no different. I tested several of both and in most cases the results were almost interchangeable, the purple cut less efficiently and the DT. I like and agree the BBW comparison.

Originally Posted by Bayamontate

Assigning an approximate grit rated to most, if not all natural stones is an exercise in futility and these are no different. I tested several of both and in most cases the results were almost interchangeable, the purple cut less efficiently and the DT. I like and agree the BBW comparison.

Yes, of course it is, I think that most of us know that, and have known it for a very long time. I used to preface all 'grit assignment ratings' with a disclaimer like that (still do in my shop sales) but have found it tiresome to type out for every single post I make here.

Primarily it is a kind of shorthand - we need a way to compare apples with oranges in this case, and this is a loose way of doing that. It gives you a ball-park kind of guess as to how the hone compares with others.

What else are you going to say to someone hoping to add a natural into a honing sequence - 'uh...don't know where it fits' - that is kind of useless isn't it?! Much better to say that it probably will fit in at so-and-so level, but is a bit slow or a bit fast - that makes for a bit of helpful (but still a little vague) advice.

As far as I am concerned, each natural within a class of hones (eg purple slates) is different or has the capability to be different to another example of the same family of hone stones, and only trying one out for yourself will tell you what its performance is like. But if you are looking for a finisher that has an equivalent performance to a hone of known grit, eg high, it is better to start with a natural that folks have used and assigned a high grit equivalence to rather than another hone that is rated to be a near equivalent to a grit rating in the 5k - 6k mark.

Common sense, really.

Regards,
Neil

I have had these hones for a while now - maybe a couple of years. I initially got them. and tried them out and found them to be 'meh!', so they sat in a drawer for a long time.

I recently decided to give them another tryout and took several razors off a DMT 8K and honed them up. The Welsh slates did a great job polishing the edges. The purple one was better, and produced an edge that shaved close and comfortably.

I'm just an amateur honer, but I don't bother about 'grit ratings' for my finishers. If I get an edge that is shave-sharp and provides a close, comfortable shave, that's all I care about.

I can't make any claims about the general usability of the Welsh slates, but the ones I received are certainly good enough to use as finishers on razors.

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Yes, of course it is, I think that most of us know that, and have known it for a very long time. I used to preface all 'grit assignment ratings' with a disclaimer like that (still do in my shop sales) but have found it tiresome to type out for every single post I make here.

Primarily it is a kind of shorthand - we need a way to compare apples with oranges in this case, and this is a loose way of doing that. It gives you a ball-park kind of guess as to how the hone compares with others.

What else are you going to say to someone hoping to add a natural into a honing sequence - 'uh...don't know where it fits' - that is kind of useless isn't it?! Much better to say that it probably will fit in at so-and-so level, but is a bit slow or a bit fast - that makes for a bit of helpful (but still a little vague) advice.

As far as I am concerned, each natural within a class of hones (eg purple slates) is different or has the capability to be different to another example of the same family of hone stones, and only trying one out for yourself will tell you what its performance is like. But if you are looking for a finisher that has an equivalent performance to a hone of known grit, eg high, it is better to start with a natural that folks have used and assigned a high grit equivalence to rather than another hone that is rated to be a near equivalent to a grit rating in the 5k - 6k mark.

Common sense, really.

Regards,
Neil

Thanks Neil for pointing that out that way....would be great if this statement would be a common understanding!!

I have a friend that uses the purple as part of his routine. He gets very nice edges, however he is not sharpening with it so much as he is finishing with it, as he goes to 13K on a synthetic for sharpness and then used the purple hone to get smoothness in the shave. I have used his purple hone, and after an 8K edge and it was very nice and shave-able, however mine is very very slow in going from an 8K to finish, showing of course that naturals are very individual.

I have those stones and really like them. I will generally use them instead of a Coticule, depending on the metal the blade is made from; some like the Coticule better and some like the Welsh stones better.......